Wesley Moraes

[DaveAV1]

5 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Watkins is 10 times the player.

I'm sorry but it's just facts. And sometimes facts hurts.

No sorry it isn’t a fact, it is merely your opinion. And that’s a fact. 

[Davkaus]

I don't get why anyone would be so keen to completely write him off and want him gone on the basis of half a season, in a team that just didn't create very much.

He should come back with a clean slate, IMO, and will hopefully benefit hugely from being able to be eased in with Watkins remaining the main guy.

[villalad21]

5 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

I don't get why anyone would be so keen to completely write him off and want him gone on the basis of half a season, in a team that just didn't create very much.

He should come back with a clean slate, IMO, and will hopefully benefit hugely from being able to be eased in with Watkins remaining the main guy.

He isn't a number 9 buddy.

Just look at how often he drops deep to join the build up play. And look at how Watkins are making all the runs into the box as a proper striker and poacher. It's night and day difference.

Where Wesley operated best at Brugge was in a 4-4-2 system behind the number 9.

We don't play that way. There is no room for him in the 10 role. We have much better players in that role.

Edited November 9, 2020 by villalad21

[bobzy]

12 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Because Wesley wasn't good enough 10 months ago and he isn't good enough now.

The longer you are out the better player you become. Classic VillaTalk logic.

Still hope we can get a decent fee out of this guy in the summer.

He'll be a decent squad player for us as he has similar traits to Watkins - that's all I've said.

"Classic VillaTalk logic".  Get in the **** bin mate.

[KenjiOgiwara]

46 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

Wow watkins must score 50 goals this season then. 

I'd probably back Watkins to get 50 goals before I'd back Wesley to get 20 in all comps tbf. 

[villalad21]

4 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I'd probably back Watkins to get 50 goals before I'd back Wesley to get 20 in all comps tbf. 

Said it before but i don't care about the goals.

It's his constant falling to the floor after the slightest touch. Not holding up the ball particularly well despite his height. Not being in the box at the end of crosses. Dilly dallying in midfield.

Watkins all round game is sooo good.

Edited November 9, 2020 by villalad21

[LondonLax]

He will probably get a run out in Barkley’s position at some point. 

[WooJung]

1 hour ago, DaveAV1 said:

No sorry it isn’t a fact, it is merely your opinion. And that’s a fact. 

Technically speaking, if it is indeed the case that Watkins is 10 times the players Wesley is, then it is indeed a fact

[Philosopher]

4 hours ago, villalad21 said:

He isn't a number 9 buddy.

Just look at how often he drops deep to join the build up play. And look at how Watkins are making all the runs into the box as a proper striker and poacher. It's night and day difference.

Where Wesley operated best at Brugge was in a 4-4-2 system behind the number 9.

We don't play that way. There is no room for him in the 10 role. We have much better players in that role.

They're different types of strikers.  Wesley is a target man. Holding up the ball, laying it off, linking up is the traditional target man. However Wesley is different to a typical target man as he is prepared to drop deep, he has a high workrate and is good at pressing. If we played Traore right of him and Watkins left of him that front 3 would be very dangerous. Put Jack or Barkley just behind those 3 and that attack would be very juicy.

Wesley coming back will give us options. He will also give us a different type of player to bring on if Watkins is ineffective.  Wesley can finish unlike Davis, infact I believe if you put pace and workrate around him he will score and assist a lot of goals. His technique infront of goal is very good. 

Of course we need to be patient while he works his way back to fitness, but there is definitely a promising player there. 

[HanoiVillan]

On 01/11/2020 at 15:29, VillaChris said:

Kozak and Kodjia were never the same after their bad injuries so I'm not hopeful. Don't think Wes has shown he's better than Libor Kozak so far who poached about 4 goals in 8 games for us before his leg break so similar to what Wes did.

Not sure why we wouldn't get a new striker in January. What on earth happens if Watkins picks up a knock in training this week and can't play Arsenal? Especially given Traore went off injured today and might not make next game.

 

On 08/11/2020 at 18:11, DCJonah said:

I didn't really rate wes, but he's clearly a much better player than kozak. 

Kozak was God awful and another shit player that gained cult like status for no reason. 

I think VillaChris is right here to be honest. Kozak wasn't very good before his injury, but he popped up with some goals. Wesley also wasn't very good, but scored a few goals. They were of a similar level of lack of effectiveness, and the gap between Kozak and Benteke then, and Wesley and Watkins now, is the gap between 'not really good enough' and 'good at this level'.

We botched Kozak's recovery, and whatever one thought of his ability before the injury he was a bare shadow of that afterwards, so I hope we are handling/continue to handle Wesley's recovery much better for his sake.

But I don't think Wesley's likely to play much of a role in our season. We have quite an easy run of fixtures from now until new year; you would hope we would be firmly in the top half, and maybe able to get someone on loan or a short term deal before the Euros to cover for Watkins.

[Laughable Chimp]

15 hours ago, Philosopher said:

They're different types of strikers.  Wesley is a target man. Holding up the ball, laying it off, linking up is the traditional target man. However Wesley is different to a typical target man as he is prepared to drop deep, he has a high workrate and is good at pressing. If we played Traore right of him and Watkins left of him that front 3 would be very dangerous. Put Jack or Barkley just behind those 3 and that attack would be very juicy.

Wesley coming back will give us options. He will also give us a different type of player to bring on if Watkins is ineffective.  Wesley can finish unlike Davis, infact I believe if you put pace and workrate around him he will score and assist a lot of goals. His technique infront of goal is very good. 

Of course we need to be patient while he works his way back to fitness, but there is definitely a promising player there. 

You know, I started this comment trying to dispute the idea that he's a target man, but honestly he fits the target man mold more than anything else. Its just he doesn't really fit it very well imo. To use FM lingo, its like he's playing as a target man with a support duty. But i feel like you need a proper strike partner to play that role or some wide forwards. That meant Wesley ended up playing with early last season El Ghazi and Trezeguet a lot and that may have made him unable to perform his role very well. 

I'm not convinced he was used properly last season and it could be we were trying to pigeon-hole into a target man role because of his build and height. But he's not very good at winning aerial duels and his heading is abysmal from what we've seen so far. I'm not convinced his future for us is as a target man and his odd playing at times during early season may be evidence of this. He often times looked like he wasn't even a centre forward, like he wasn't exactly sure what he was supposed to be doing on that pitch for us, perhaps confused at the instructions he was asked to be carrying out. It could be he's just shit, but he really did have some name to him when he came from Belgium so I don't think that's it. And he's exhibited other skills that aren't I would immediately associated with a target man.

The other role I could see him playing is a deep lying forward, but his key passes stats are actually pretty low. Of course key passes aren't everything in the offensive side and there's some data which supports the idea that he is okay at build-up play. Surprisingly good at long passing but surprisingly poor at short passes gives me mix signals on this.

I do however dispute the idea that he is a good presser. All his stats which may suggest that he was a good presser(tackling, interceptions, passes blocked, etc) are all on the low side. I do feel like he did up his pressing around before he got injured however.

[GingerCollins29]

We are all crying out for squad depth and some are moaning about a 22 million brazilian striker coming in as backup to OW.....

[MaVilla]

6 minutes ago, GingerCollins29 said:

We are all crying out for squad depth and some are moaning about a 22 million brazilian striker coming in as backup to OW.....

Hello good sir, welcome to villatalk, are you new here???

[Vive_La_Villa]

When’s he due back? He wont have as much pressure on him now and can be back eased in. I think he will be a good impact substitute.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Vive_La_Villa

[Thug]

I don’t see the problem here.

He arrived with a big fee, into a new country and different system.  He’s injured, so no real sale value at the moment.  We’ve got a striker who is scoring goals.

Why not just wait and see what happens instead of trying to push him out the door?

Let him come back, let’s see how he does when he’s eased back in.  I was a big critic of his light weight shenanigans, but that was to say we needed someone who could perform now rather than jn 12 months time.  We have that, which means this young man now has more time and less pressure to find his feet.

How about we lay off him a while?

[ozvillafan]

12 hours ago, LondonLax said:

He will probably get a run out in Barkley’s position at some point. 

I think so too.

Wes has always played in a front 2 up until he joined us. He likes to drop deeper to receive the ball but when he did that for us there was nobody else in front. With Watkins further up the pitch, it could work out well.

[Vancvillan]

30 minutes ago, Thug said:

I don’t see the problem here.

He arrived with a big fee, into a new country and different system.  He’s injured, so no real sale value at the moment.  We’ve got a striker who is scoring goals.

Why not just wait and see what happens instead of trying to push him out the door?

Let him come back, let’s see how he does when he’s eased back in.  I was a big critic of his light weight shenanigans, but that was to say we needed someone who could perform now rather than jn 12 months time.  We have that, which means this young man now has more time and less pressure to find his feet.

How about we lay off him a while?

This kind of logic won't get you far with the few that disagree.

[maqroll]

Too bad we're out of the League Cup, it would have been a good opportunity for Wesley, and all the other bench riders. All of a sudden, Hourihane is an afterthought, which is too bad, because I like to watch him play. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

3 hours ago, maqroll said:

Too bad we're out of the League Cup, it would have been a good opportunity for Wesley, and all the other bench riders. All of a sudden, Hourihane is an afterthought, which is too bad, because I like to watch him play. 

Funnily enough I dislike to watch him play, but I like to watch him shoot. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by KenjiOgiwara

[Philosopher]

8 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

You know, I started this comment trying to dispute the idea that he's a target man, but honestly he fits the target man mold more than anything else. Its just he doesn't really fit it very well imo. To use FM lingo, its like he's playing as a target man with a support duty. But i feel like you need a proper strike partner to play that role or some wide forwards. That meant Wesley ended up playing with early last season El Ghazi and Trezeguet a lot and that may have made him unable to perform his role very well. 

I'm not convinced he was used properly last season and it could be we were trying to pigeon-hole into a target man role because of his build and height. But he's not very good at winning aerial duels and his heading is abysmal from what we've seen so far. I'm not convinced his future for us is as a target man and his odd playing at times during early season may be evidence of this. He often times looked like he wasn't even a centre forward, like he wasn't exactly sure what he was supposed to be doing on that pitch for us, perhaps confused at the instructions he was asked to be carrying out. It could be he's just shit, but he really did have some name to him when he came from Belgium so I don't think that's it. And he's exhibited other skills that aren't I would immediately associated with a target man.

The other role I could see him playing is a deep lying forward, but his key passes stats are actually pretty low. Of course key passes aren't everything in the offensive side and there's some data which supports the idea that he is okay at build-up play. Surprisingly good at long passing but surprisingly poor at short passes gives me mix signals on this.

I do however dispute the idea that he is a good presser. All his stats which may suggest that he was a good presser(tackling, interceptions, passes blocked, etc) are all on the low side. I do feel like he did up his pressing around before he got injured however.

When he came from Belgium it was mentioned that he was a good presser. He does work hard. His tackling stats for us weren't bad, interceptions was poor, but that down to his qualities. He's a big guy that while his top speed is decent his acceleration is poor. Usually it's the quick nippy strikers that are good at getting in the interceptions.

In the traditional sense of a big target man I agree he doesn't fit this. He is like a cross between a deep lying striker and a target man, i agree. This for me makes him very interesting.

The qualities he displayed suit having the ball played into his feet With his back to goal. His heading isn't great, he struggles to find his teammates with his head, however in front of goal his heading's not too bad and he will definitely improve. 

He can both play high up as a target man and drop off and involve himself in the build up. If he can master when to push up and when to drop off he will become the most elusive big man ever to play centre forward. If you get pacey inside forwards around him they will score goals. 

I feel he can be a very unique player. I am very glad Deano didn't try to coach him into a traditional centre forward. I personally think Smith wanted to use him similar to Firmino. The problem he had was El Ghazi and Trezguet simply didn't perform and aren't really the pacy running in behind wide forwards that would feed off Wesley. 

I see Wesley at a team focused player until he gets in the box. We were told that he wasn't really a goalscorer. I don’t think that's accurate. As from what I have seen he is a very calm finisher.  He won't really ever be a consistent 20 goal striker like i Watkins being, but he is good 10 to 15 goals and 5 to 10 assists. 

In front of goal he does the correct technical things strikers are supposed to do. Shooting low across the keeper and heading down. So he will always have a decent chance conversion.

Against teams like Burnley that defend deep he is likely to be more effective than Watkins. But against teams that play a high line, without a couple of speed merchants around him he doesn't offer much.