Wesley Moraes

[Condimentalist]

Wesley is a project - and therefore a risk. If they want to pay us something close to what we paid I'd probably take that, especially given his injury. But I wouldn't sell at a massive discount - he certainly hasn't failed and could become an excellent player with the right coaching and management- which crucially means less pressure than last year IMO. 

[AVTuco]

I'd sell in a heartbeat for that price. We can afford the loss.

[Adam2003]

29 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

I don’t get you here, rodders. You think he’s crap, but you wouldn’t sell at a loss? Do you expect us to turn a profit on someone who, in your opinion has been largely poor, and is coming back from one of the most serious injuries a professional footballer can sustain? 

For fear of sounding like our resident Leeds fan - Villalad, I’ll shy away from the hyperbole but I just don’t rate him. I want him to succeed but I can’t see it and I would take a loss right now if it meant we could sign Watkins and say, Edouard. 

Our sporting director was sacked for a reason and that’s because the players he signed - Wesley, Nakamba, Trezeguet etc. - have all been underwhelming. 

You’re thinking of money like money in your pocket. Like if £10m comes in for him then we have £10m to spend.

FFP means you need to think of it like an accountant and loss vs depreciation. It HURTS our budget to sell him for £10m while he still has so long left on his contract. Even if you don’t rate him at all it makes financially better sense to let him sit on his contract.

From my side I don’t want to do it as I’m sure he will knock in goals for them and someone will sign him for £30m and it’ll be the same old story with our transfers. But even if you totally disagree FFP means selling at a loss after one year makes no sense. 

[villan-scott]

4 minutes ago, AVTuco said:

I'd sell in a heartbeat for that price. We can afford the loss.

I’m not sure the owners would see it that way. Can’t see them happily writing off a 10m loss on an asset in 12 months. 

Wes will be here next season. 

[Delphinho123]

5 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

You’re thinking of money like money in your pocket. Like if £10m comes in for him then we have £10m to spend.

FFP means you need to think of it like an accountant and loss vs depreciation. It HURTS our budget to sell him for £10m while he still has so long left on his contract. Even if you don’t rate him at all it makes financially better sense to let him sit on his contract.

From my side I don’t want to do it as I’m sure he will knock in goals for them and someone will sign him for £30m and it’ll be the same old story with our transfers. But even if you totally disagree FFP means selling at a loss after one year makes no sense. 

Yes, I am!

Maybe I just don’t understand. Either way, I don’t rate him and would rather Davis be our third choice striker behind two new signings this summer. 

[Adam2003]

35 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Yes, I am!

Maybe I just don’t understand. Either way, I don’t rate him and would rather Davis be our third choice striker behind two new signings this summer. 

If you actually are looking to understand and without wanting to sound patronising by explaining: Wesley is an asset on our books worth a certain amount. He is valued at more than £10m. So if you sell him for £10m, you record a loss. Which under FFP rules, is money you then can’t spend. Vs him sitting on our books when he is an asset not a cost. Very simplified and of course wages and fee and squad size and many other factors mean there are variables - but put it this way - if under FFP we now had £50m to spend on a striker, and we sold Wesley for £10m, then we would only have £40m to spend (£50m minus the loss on Wesley) not £50m+£10m fee received.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Adam2003

[MotoMkali]

2 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

I would happily sell him for £13m if it means getting in two new first-team ready strikers.

Wes could possibly turn it round, but he's got so much to improve on and that's after he's mentally over his knee.

If I was him I would never ever sign for Lazio. Perhaps the most racist fanbase in a league with plenty of openly racist fanbases. Stay and prove your doubters wrong here Wes.

But among all the strikers in the league (at least outside of the top 6) he arguably has the most potential. He can be unstoppable against any defender, is quick, good build up play and great instinctive finishes. He just needs to learn how to use his strength in this league so he wins more free kicks and gives away fewer and how to head the ball and we will have a proper player on our hands. If he makes any improvement next season he is instantly worth 35 million and if he hits 10-15 goals and 5 assists he would be worth 50. 

[MotoMkali]

39 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Yes, I am!

Maybe I just don’t understand. Either way, I don’t rate him and would rather Davis be our third choice striker behind two new signings this summer. 

Because we are paying 22 million over 5 years which means it costs us 4.4 million a year. If Lazio sign him for 13 million (pounds was reported as euros so even less really) we will be receiving 2.6 million a year. Which means we will be making a loss of 1.8 million on him for each of the next 4 seasons. No one pays the full amount upfront these days. Barca owes half the clubs in Europe money. 

[villalad21]

1 minute ago, MotoMkali said:

He can be unstoppable against any defender

[Delphinho123]

3 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

But among all the strikers in the league (at least outside of the top 6) he arguably has the most potential. He can be unstoppable against any defender, is quick, good build up play and great instinctive finishes. He just needs to learn how to use his strength in this league so he wins more free kicks and gives away fewer and how to head the ball and we will have a proper player on our hands. If he makes any improvement next season he is instantly worth 35 million and if he hits 10-15 goals and 5 assists he would be worth 50. 

He also struggles to control the football 50% of the time. 

[alreadyexists]

I’m just reminded of Adama Traore, where people are quick in hindsight to say the club was shortsighted... but at the time we swapped him with Adomah from ‘Boro and we thought we’d robbed them. Well we’ve got another youngster on our hands, who is rough but shows some promise. I think we should keep him and see how he develops, otherwise we might be thinking ‘what if’ again.

[MotoMkali]

Just now, Delphinho123 said:

He also struggles to control the football 50% of the time. 

Being pushed in the back and the ref not giving it because of his size. He still hasn't learnt how to fully use his size and strength to his advantage but when he does the only defender who I think could go toe to toe with him in terms of strength is VVD. Zouma for instance said mina is stronger than him and Zouma is a brick shit house and Wesley made him look like a child several times against Everton.

Furthermore he will have had more space in the Belgian league so big touches would have gone unpunished. An easy fix but one that takes time to adapt to. 

[villalad21]

Just now, alreadyexists said:

I’m just reminded of Adama Traore, where people are quick in hindsight to say the club was shortsighted... but at the time we swapped him with Adomah from ‘Boro and we thought we’d robbed them. Well we’ve got another youngster on our hands, who is rough but shows some promise. I think we should keep him and see how he develops, otherwise we might be thinking ‘what if’ again.

We all could see what Adama's strengths were. Skipping past players. Only difference is he had no end product at Villa, but it was easy to see what he excelled at.

Regarding Wesley. I still got no clue what his strengths are.

[alreadyexists]

Just now, villalad21 said:

We all could see what Adama's strengths were. Skipping past players. Only difference is he had no end product at Villa, but it was easy to see what he excelled at.

Regarding Wesley. I still got no clue what his strengths are.

I disagree, but hey ho.  

[Delphinho123]

16 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

If you actually are looking to understand and without wanting to sound patronising by explaining: Wesley is an asset on our books worth a certain amount. He is valued at more than £10m. So if you sell him for £10m, you record a loss. Which under FFP rules, is money you then can’t spend. Vs him sitting on our books when he is an asset not a cost. Very simplified and of course wages and fee and squad size and many other factors mean there are variables - but put it this way - if under FFP we now had £50m to spend on a striker, and we sold Wesley for £10m, then we would only have £40m to spend (£50m minus the loss on Wesley) not £50m+£10m fee received.

Fair enough, if that’s the case. Either way, I don’t rate him that highly but we’ll see what happens. Hopefully he comes back a man possessed. 

(Please don’t tell me we can’t sell Samatta either..)

Edited August 7, 2020 by Delphinho123

[The Fun Factory]

They won't sell him this summer. Why sell him at a loss. Give him another season. Either he will come good or after 2 years we will sell him on. You can't really judge him on a half a season playing for a struggling new club in  a new country for him. I expect to see improvement from Wes when he gets back.

[MotoMkali]

18 minutes ago, alreadyexists said:

I’m just reminded of Adama Traore, where people are quick in hindsight to say the club was shortsighted... but at the time we swapped him with Adomah from ‘Boro and we thought we’d robbed them. Well we’ve got another youngster on our hands, who is rough but shows some promise. I think we should keep him and see how he develops, otherwise we might be thinking ‘what if’ again.

Why would you ever sell a physical freak. All it takes is for them to develop even a quarter of an average athletes technical ability and they will already be on par with them. Would Ronaldo even be half as good as Messi is if he wasnt the fastest player, strongest player and most athletic player 90% of the games he was in. No.

Edit: To clarify you would sell them if they have proven over multiple seasons they don't have it in them to take the next step and develop with your club. You don't cut ties in the first season. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by MotoMkali

[KenjiOgiwara]

26 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

If you actually are looking to understand and without wanting to sound patronising by explaining: Wesley is an asset on our books worth a certain amount. He is valued at more than £10m. So if you sell him for £10m, you record a loss. Which under FFP rules, is money you then can’t spend. Vs him sitting on our books when he is an asset not a cost. Very simplified and of course wages and fee and squad size and many other factors mean there are variables - but put it this way - if under FFP we now had £50m to spend on a striker, and we sold Wesley for £10m, then we would only have £40m to spend (£50m minus the loss on Wesley) not £50m+£10m fee received.

Interesting. 

Two things. Wouldn't wages be discounted? 

Secondly. The bit in bold. Sure about that? 

[Follyfoot]

24 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

But among all the strikers in the league (at least outside of the top 6) he arguably has the most potential. He can be unstoppable against any defender, is quick, good build up play and great instinctive finishes. He just needs to learn how to use his strength in this league so he wins more free kicks and gives away fewer and how to head the ball and we will have a proper player on our hands. If he makes any improvement next season he is instantly worth 35 million and if he hits 10-15 goals and 5 assists he would be worth 50. 

He has the weakest shot I’ve ever seen on a player

[MotoMkali]

7 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

He has the weakest shot I’ve ever seen on a player

Then you haven't watched him play. Just because he deliberately hits it along the ground doesn't mean it is a weak shot. Shots along the ground are far more likely to go in than shots hit in the air.