Villan_of_oz Posted July 28, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 28, 2020 1 hour ago, villalad21 said: Whether he improves or not. We need a better striker. We can't afford to wait for Wesley to become good. We need someone who is ready made and can score 10-15 goals. Tammy the obvious target, but wouldn't be upset if we got Mitrovic or Wilson. Callum Wilson only scored double figures in 1 of his 5 seasons in the PL (and is much older), Mitrovic got 11 goals in his 1 season in the PL (he's older too). Tammy I will give you. If you're going to slate Wesley, try and make a more compelling case next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 Just now, Villan_of_oz said: Callum Wilson only scored double figures in 1 of his 5 seasons in the PL (and is much older), Mitrovic got 11 goals in his 1 season in the PL (he's older too). Tammy I will give you. If you're going to slate Wesley, try and make a more compelling case next time. Have Wilson ever played with Jack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keener window-cleaner Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 2 hours ago, TrentVilla said: I find some views on Wesley utterly staggering. A few years ago people were writing Benteke off as being rubbish and then he got up to pace with English football, improved and became a brilliant player for us. That’s not to say Wesley is as good or will do the same but it should be enough to make people hold fire on judgment. But perhaps that was too long ago... if only we had another Brazilian at the club who had had a patchy start to his time with us. A player who perhaps got caught on the ball too many times as he struggled to get up to speed with the pace of the game, perhaps one who then as the season drew to a close became one of our best players.... Would be a handy point of comparison and illustration of how players can become accustomed to their surroundings and improve their performances. If only we had someone like that, it might make people think a little more about their assessments of Wesley. Shame we don’t aye.... so yeah Wesley is rubbish. And it's not just the views on Wesley, but more or less anyone who doesn't perform right away. There are sprouts of real talent in Wesley, imo it's up to the management team to coach the player and get the best out of him. I support him 100% but I'm divided in my opinion on him so far, at times he looks like a Sunday league player, at times he makes moves justifying his Brazil call up. What I'm sure of is that there is talent in there, massive potential, and that 22-year olds in a new country, new league, new culture can take time to adapt. Some adapts quickly, some can take over a year, some never does. I feel confident Wesley will. Next season hopefully he will not bear the burden alone of leading the line, which probably will benefit him alot. Btw - how I have missed your posts and sound opinions! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted July 28, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Have Wilson ever played with Jack? So your gonna make a subjective assumption to slate Wesley.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 28, 2020 Moderator Share Posted July 28, 2020 2 hours ago, sne said: Who knows, it might be a shorter adjustment period for the guy who was developed at Vasco da Gama academy, was scouted and signed by Man City than it is for the guy who started playing amateur football when he was 16 and moved via Slovakia to Belgium? I can only comment on the games he played here, never seen him before. Which way he will develop is anyones guess. Comparing 2 players just because they are from the same country is a bit weak as they have fundamentally different backgrounds. One is a academy product and the other started playing because he needed to support his kids when he was 16. Pretty sure most agree that the big issue was that we didn't sign anyone else along with him. He shouldn't have had to play almost 90 minutes for 21 consecutive games. No striker should. A few games off the bench during his long slump and he might have started firing much sooner. You actually read my post and think my comparison was based on their shared nationality? Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 28, 2020 Moderator Share Posted July 28, 2020 34 minutes ago, Keener window-cleaner said: And it's not just the views on Wesley, but more or less anyone who doesn't perform right away. There are sprouts of real talent in Wesley, imo it's up to the management team to coach the player and get the best out of him. I support him 100% but I'm divided in my opinion on him so far, at times he looks like a Sunday league player, at times he makes moves justifying his Brazil call up. What I'm sure of is that there is talent in there, massive potential, and that 22-year olds in a new country, new league, new culture can take time to adapt. Some adapts quickly, some can take over a year, some never does. I feel confident Wesley will. Next season hopefully he will not bear the burden alone of leading the line, which probably will benefit him alot. Btw - how I have missed your posts and sound opinions! I agree on your summary, he is extremely raw but has a lot of potential it remains to be seen if that can be tapped into. Its just the way that some write players of prematurely seemingly never learning from the previous examples, I always remember Milner was labelled crap by some. And thank you, appreciate that. Nice to be back, mostly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 Just now, TrentVilla said: You actually read my post and think my comparison was based on their shared nationality? Seriously? No, their difference in their backgrounds is the key difference between why they might take shorter and longer time to adjust. Nationality aside. But I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that you chose to compare just those 2 because they are both young Brazilians and one of them was much improved after the break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillz Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Wesley was brought in and the expectations were huge - rather foolishly he was the only real striker and we needed him to score the goals to keep us up. I actually think he got off to a really good start - scoring 4 goals in the first 8 games and getting an assist. But then he hit a slump and didnt score for 12 games in a row. Fans and the media started to get on his back but there were signs he was starting to pull it around - particularly with his performance at Burnley. I honestly think if he had been fit, our survival would have been guaranteed much sooner. 5 goals in 20 appearances. That doesn't sound amazing, but if you apply that record for the full season and take into account some better form, you are looking at maybe 10 goals in his debut year. I really don't think he's the flop people make out - i think he's got potential and hopefully next year, when fully fit, and with a striker to share the burden with, he will surpass his potential. For context: Haller - West Ham - £45m - 7 goals Joelinton - Newcastle - £40m - 2 goals Kean - Everton - £25m - 2 goals 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, Villan_of_oz said: Callum Wilson only scored double figures in 1 of his 5 seasons in the PL (and is much older), Mitrovic got 11 goals in his 1 season in the PL (he's older too). Tammy I will give you. If you're going to slate Wesley, try and make a more compelling case next time. Mitrovic has done well to make 77 appearances in 1 PL season. Wilson would be a great signing, in any case. Edited July 29, 2020 by kurtsimonw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 13 hours ago, sne said: No, their difference in their backgrounds is the key difference between why they might take shorter and longer time to adjust. Nationality aside. But I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that you chose to compare just those 2 because they are both young Brazilians and one of them was much improved after the break. I think it was because they're both new players to the club, of a similar age, and have both struggled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 13 hours ago, Villan_of_oz said: Callum Wilson only scored double figures in 1 of his 5 seasons in the PL (and is much older), Mitrovic got 11 goals in his 1 season in the PL (he's older too). Tammy I will give you. If you're going to slate Wesley, try and make a more compelling case next time. I saw the dumbest shit on Villa FB page today. Someone had list of players to buy and said we should pay 20 million for Josh "hardly scores all season except the odd penalty" King I despair of average Joe fan's transfer ideas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 I like King. A lot better at everything than Wes for instance. Not a bad shout at all. But I'm not sure about his physical fitness. He seems to pick up a lot of knocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pas5898 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) Not quite ready to give up on Wesley yet, although we definitely need an additional goal scorer to compete and compliment. Preferably with Premier league experience. Someone that's strong in the air, loves scoring at Villa Park, local lad. Someone who if they signed would make Small Heath fans go beside themselves would be ideal. Edited July 29, 2020 by pas5898 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: I saw the dumbest shit on Villa FB page today. Someone had list of players to buy and said we should pay 20 million for Josh "hardly scores all season except the odd penalty" King I despair of average Joe fan's transfer ideas He;'s got a decent PL record. He's been shafted this season being played out of position because of Solanke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Just now, kurtsimonw said: He;'s got a decent PL record. He's been shafted this season being played out of position because of Solanke. If you take away the penalties it's shit. If you keep the penalties it's still pretty shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: If you take away the penalties it's shit. If you keep the penalties it's still pretty shit Forgot penalties didn't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 7 minutes ago, pas5898 said: Not quite ready to give up on Wesley yet, although we definitely need an additional goal scorer to compete and compliment. Preferably with Premier league experience. Someone that's strong in the air, loves scoring at Villa Park, local lad. Someone who if they signed would make Small Heath fans go beside themselves would be ideal. Are you suggesting Deeney? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 I honestly don't get the obsession with strikers. Modern teams share the goals around 3 or 4 players, and wingers/wide forwards are very important. I'd much rather have 2 x 30m wingers than 1 x 60m striker. Our biggest problem has been final ball, creativity etc. We need players who can tee up others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 9 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: He;'s got a decent PL record. He's been shafted this season being played out of position because of Solanke. King isnt really a central striker either, plays everywhere along the forward line. Has more Premier League goals than Wilson and I would certainly take him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Wesley has potential but we need him to be an option and not someone we rely on. He's not ready for that yet. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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