Wesley Moraes

[Guest av1]

2 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

When you see posters recommending McGinn or even Engels up front you just know that they are full of shit and know absolutely **** all about football. 

You missed the suggestion that Nyland could play up top on the previous page? 

[screwdriver]

The good news is Collymore has offered to come in and do one to one back to goal sessions with Wesley. gratis!

Do it now Smith!

[wilko154]

49 minutes ago, Tumblerseven said:

He looks pretty good in games? Sorry i disagree i think the guy is a lazy joke.

1. One of our playing style aspects is crossing often. Our big striker doesnt even atempt to head anything.

2. Leicester game hes panicking on the ball that leads to goal. That panick not the first game i mind you.

3.Chelsea game he battled for ball got tired real quickly than jumped in the air and fall with all his weight to the ground. Almost got really injured i thought his hip is  injured for the moment.Hes a liability! It looked so funny referee didint even look twice and didint give the faul.

4.Always frustrated or his body language says hes frustrated.  Flaping arms is not his job! And yah it can affect teamates!!!!

5.Hes to slow to make runs bettwen defenders so that playing aspect is out of the plans. Kennan davis do that better than this guy. Hogan did that pretty good.

6. Hes failling to battle or fight for the ball with his strenght and his weight because his giving up to early. He fakes that he got injured or fouled and when lying on the ground asks for fouls. Of course he dont get it because hes faking it and everyone see it.

This is not selected incidents to show him hes a bad boy or a bad player this is his playing style he doying this every game.

1. Most of our crosses in recent games are balls being flung into the box with little attempt to find Wesley. Granted he needs to work on getting into the right position at times.

2. Everyone panicked on the ball, Leicester were better than us in all areas. Wesley was being asked to hold the ball up with no one around him to help.

3. Ok

4. Tammy used to do this as well, no one complained then. He's getting frustrated as we are adapting our game to help him, we aren't getting players near to him to help him.

5. Davis is injured, Hogan is pants

6. I probably agree with this, but he's shown against Everton and Norwich that he can do it. It's getting this out of him on a consistent basis.

[Indigo]

10 hours ago, Pelle said:

It's quite funny. No, it's quite sad. Actually it's kind of pathetic that after we're beaten 4-1 at our home ground the most growing thread is the thread about our striker. And we played against the best defence in the league. Some say that if we'd had Tammy we'd be 6 now. I say that we score enough to be 6th but we concede far too many goals. Our attack is quite decent and he's a part of the attack.

What's his attributes? Well, he's rather stromng and keeps the defenders occuoied making space for the other players for one. He's quite good at finding a pass at one touch (No, I don't mean that the times he can't control the ball is passes. I actually agree with the criticism that he's bad at trapping the ball is poor). It's not often it opens up the defence, but it gets the attack rolling on. That's another. He's far from great. But seriously, he's part of the one thing we're good at, attacking and scoring goals. It's not despite we have him, it's not because we have him, but he's a part of it. We wouldn't be scoring that many goals if he was half as bad asome on here claim. We simply wouldn't. If we were then the rest of the players would be almost world class and only one of them comes close to be that. He's playing his part in what makes us going. That's his main task.

What he's not a main part of is the defence. And there are only 4 teams who've conceded more goals than we have, and two others that have conceded as many. We're joint 5th in shipping goals, or joint 13th if you like. This is where our main issues are. Not scoring goals, but conceding them.

Smith is most likely more concerned about how we do than us fans. He's a fan himself and he's got one try at what is probably his dream job. Believe me, he wants success more than any of us do. And he knows better than any of us how to get it. Will he get it? We'll see, but it won't be for being stubborn and not seeing what we can see. And definetely not at this stage. The odds are on him, not us in here.

Someone mentioed that he had a chance to shoot against leicester but opted for the pass to Elmo and it all went to nothing. In my book a legimit thing to chriticise, but that's what bad confidence can do. If you're low on confidence you don't dare to do anything on your own. You fear making mistakes. You hardly dare to do anything yourself. Better to pass so you're not the one who loses the ball. I'm not saying that he's defenitely low on confidence, but if I was to bet I'd bet on that.

I too want another striker in January, but I'm far from giving up hope on Wesley. Not after 16 games, And especially not after a run where we've played against manure, liverppol, citeh, chelski and leicester. 4 yaers ago I'd never thought I'd add leicester to those teams. And that manure would actually be by far the worst of them.

With suggestions like McGinn and Engels up top as that wouldn't be worse, I really hope that I'll never see you complain about a manager playing players out of position, but I'm quite sure you already have.

And for the last, where did you all expect us to be by now? Top 10? Top 6? Top 4? We're about where we should expect us to be this season.

Probably the most reasonable post in an otherwise ridiculous thread all around.

[nick76]

10 hours ago, Pelle said:

It's quite funny. No, it's quite sad. Actually it's kind of pathetic that after we're beaten 4-1 at our home ground the most growing thread is the thread about our striker. And we played against the best defence in the league. Some say that if we'd had Tammy we'd be 6 now. I say that we score enough to be 6th but we concede far too many goals. Our attack is quite decent and he's a part of the attack.

What's his attributes? Well, he's rather stromng and keeps the defenders occuoied making space for the other players for one. He's quite good at finding a pass at one touch (No, I don't mean that the times he can't control the ball is passes. I actually agree with the criticism that he's bad at trapping the ball is poor). It's not often it opens up the defence, but it gets the attack rolling on. That's another. He's far from great. But seriously, he's part of the one thing we're good at, attacking and scoring goals. It's not despite we have him, it's not because we have him, but he's a part of it. We wouldn't be scoring that many goals if he was half as bad asome on here claim. We simply wouldn't. If we were then the rest of the players would be almost world class and only one of them comes close to be that. He's playing his part in what makes us going. That's his main task.

What he's not a main part of is the defence. And there are only 4 teams who've conceded more goals than we have, and two others that have conceded as many. We're joint 5th in shipping goals, or joint 13th if you like. This is where our main issues are. Not scoring goals, but conceding them.

Smith is most likely more concerned about how we do than us fans. He's a fan himself and he's got one try at what is probably his dream job. Believe me, he wants success more than any of us do. And he knows better than any of us how to get it. Will he get it? We'll see, but it won't be for being stubborn and not seeing what we can see. And definetely not at this stage. The odds are on him, not us in here.

Someone mentioed that he had a chance to shoot against leicester but opted for the pass to Elmo and it all went to nothing. In my book a legimit thing to chriticise, but that's what bad confidence can do. If you're low on confidence you don't dare to do anything on your own. You fear making mistakes. You hardly dare to do anything yourself. Better to pass so you're not the one who loses the ball. I'm not saying that he's defenitely low on confidence, but if I was to bet I'd bet on that.

I too want another striker in January, but I'm far from giving up hope on Wesley. Not after 16 games, And especially not after a run where we've played against manure, liverppol, citeh, chelski and leicester. 4 yaers ago I'd never thought I'd add leicester to those teams. And that manure would actually be by far the worst of them.

With suggestions like McGinn and Engels up top as that wouldn't be worse, I really hope that I'll never see you complain about a manager playing players out of position, but I'm quite sure you already have.

And for the last, where did you all expect us to be by now? Top 10? Top 6? Top 4? We're about where we should expect us to be this season.

Great post!

[Rob182]

At the game on Sunday, so many people around me that kept screaming that Wesley can't win a long ball. I feel like I'm watching a different game to them sometimes.

Yes, he's not been great lately, and his first touch can be poor, but I've seen him win lots of long balls. It's not exactly Wesley's fault that when Heaton hoofs it to him, our wingers seem to be hugging their own touchlines, miles away from Wes.

I know stats can be misleading and completely selective, but I was just looking on WhoScored.com, and for this whole season, he is 8th in 'most aerial duels won' (excluding defenders, who obviously he's not compared against).

He's won more than Kane, more than Barnes, more than Tammy, more than Benteke, more than Richarlison, more than King. When compared to other strikers, only Haller, Joelinton, Calvert-Lewin, McBurnie, Wood and Ayew are ahead of him for amount of aerial duels won.

I should add that this is based just on 'amount won', not the percentage won. WhoScored.com says that he's contested 123 aerial duels, with 47 won and 76 lost. As a comparison, Joelinton has contested 192 aerial duels, with 87 won and 105 lost. Chris Wood has contested 134, winning 52 and losing 82.

By looking at those stats in isolation, he's pretty much on a par with the other 'target man' type strikers in the league. Haller has won the most, with Joelinton second, and I think Wesley's having a better season than both of them.

[NIVillan]

He is all we currently have so we should support him and try and build his confidence up instead of booing and calling out he is shite.

Jan we may be able to bring in some help/alternative but until then...

[villalad21]

2 minutes ago, NIVillan said:

He is all we currently have

[villalad21]

2 hours ago, screwdriver said:

The good news is Collymore has offered to come in and do one to one back to goal sessions with Wesley. gratis!

Do it now Smith!

Stan saying it how it is.

Wesley is a liability.

[Laughable Chimp]

Maybe joining the whole, Wesley is completely useless side is a bit too extreme. I do see that he does certain things well in the middle of the park but I still maintain that he just isn't an out an out striker. I don't think we will ever get his full potential if we continue to play him as our sole striker no matter how long Smith plays him up there. He might have the odd good game once every 8 games or something up there, but its just not how to best use him.

Edited December 10, 2019 by Laughable Chimp

[Keyblade]

It doesn't help that Heaton is a terrible kicker. He usually leaves Wesley with way too much to do. If we're going to expect our CF to be a target man, we might as well make Keinan our first choice because Wesley isn't the man to take 60 yard punts out of the air like they were nothing. Keinan has that gift.

[Delphinho123]

4 hours ago, av1 said:

You missed the suggestion that Nyland could play up top on the previous page? 

What attributes does Wesley have as a striker that make him more suited to the role than Engels? 

[carewjust4u]

58 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

It doesn't help that Heaton is a terrible kicker. He usually leaves Wesley with way too much to do. If we're going to expect our CF to be a target man, we might as well make Keinan our first choice because Wesley isn't the man to take 60 yard punts out of the air like they were nothing. Keinan has that gift.

This x1000000, Heaton cannot pin-point a pass (which is why Pickford is ahead of him in Gareth's books IMO), so much harder to win a ball when you have to move significantly to get into position. In the Chelsea game they hustled our defence to pass it to Heaton, cos every-time it was going to end with them regaining possession. 

[Keyblade]

5 minutes ago, carewjust4u said:

This x1000000, Heaton cannot pin-point a pass (which is why Pickford is ahead of him in Gareth's books IMO), so much harder to win a ball when you have to move significantly to get into position. In the Chelsea game they hustled our defence to pass it to Heaton, cos every-time it was going to end with them regaining possession. 

He just hits it into an area with no real accuracy and just hopes Wesley will somehow get it under control. If you notice, Wes has to then hustle significantly just to get into a position where he can challenge for it. 

Keinan is good at that, nipping in behind the defender and jostling for position (John McGinn is too). I don't think this is a skill Wesley ever needed to develop in Belgium.

[KenjiOgiwara]

1 hour ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Maybe joining the whole, Wesley is completely useless side is a bit too extreme. I do see that he does certain things well in the middle of the park but I still maintain that he just isn't an out an out striker. I don't think we will ever get his full potential if we continue to play him as our sole striker no matter how long Smith plays him up there. He might have the odd good game once every 8 games or something up there, but its just not how to best use him.

It really, really, isn't. I am normally fairly patient man, and have a long term view where continuity breeds success. I understand that 5 losses doesn't mean the end of the world nor does 5 wins mean you're winning the league.

But trying to act sensible and patient or taking a moral high ground around Wesley, it just doesn't fly with me. He's a professional footballer who's absolutely dog shit. He's been given half a season up top behind a very creative midfield and attack minded team, and he's been absolutely clueless. 

* His hold up play is fairly poor, all though probably the only thing he isn't a complete donkey at. 

* He shoots like a girl. 

* Doesn't excell at heading, trapping or running with a ball. 

* Is fairly slow and not strong for his size.

* Absolutely awful urgency and acceleration. 

* Doesn't get into the box. 

* Has the first touch of rapist. 

* Has shown ZERO individual skill. Looks about as Brazilian as Gavin McCann. 

* Is embarrassing in terms of pretending injuries or acting like a child on the pitch. 

* Creates more free kicks than any other player in the league. 

He looks like a complete amateur. Like a pub league player just thrown into the league. 

If he by magic starts performing. Great. But until the we need a replacement un January and alternatives right away

 Calling Wesley completely useless isn't cruel or inaccurate. It's the truth. He's a total handicap and pretending he isn't won't move us up the table. There is no use of him. He contributes nada, zilch, **** all. In fact the last two matches he's cost us two goals. 

The notion that we shouldn't be honest about this when we are fans that spend thousands of pounds a year on this club is just utter tripe.

He makes himself a crazy rich man playing for this club. He is incredibly fortunate and in a priviledged position. Time he performed like it. 

[Delphinho123]

8 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

It really, really, isn't. I am normally fairly patient man, and have a long term view where continuity breeds success. I understand that 5 losses doesn't mean the end of the world nor does 5 wins mean you're winning the league.

But trying to act sensible and patient or taking a moral high ground around Wesley, it just doesn't fly with me. He's a professional footballer who's absolutely dog shit. He's been given half a season up top behind a very creative midfield and attack minded team, and he's been absolutely clueless. 

* His hold up play is fairly poor, all though probably the only thing he isn't a complete donkey at. 

* He shoots like a girl. 

* Doesn't excell at heading, trapping or running with a ball. 

* Is fairly slow and not strong for his size.

* Absolutely awful urgency and acceleration. 

* Doesn't get into the box. 

* Has the first touch of rapist. 

* Has shown ZERO individual skill. Looks about as Brazilian as Gavin McCann. 

* Is embarrassing in terms of pretending injuries or acting like a child on the pitch. 

* Creates more free kicks than any other player in the league. 

He looks like a complete amateur. Like a pub league player just thrown into the league. 

If he by magic starts performing. Great. But until the we need a replacement un January and alternatives right away

 Calling Wesley completely useless isn't cruel or inaccurate. It's the truth. He's a total handicap and pretending he isn't won't move us up the table. There is no use of him. He contributes nada, zilch, **** all. In fact the last two matches he's cost us two goals. 

The notion that we shouldn't be honest about this when we are fans that spend thousands of pounds a year on this club is just utter tripe.

He makes himself a crazy rich man playing for this club. He is incredibly fortunate and in a priviledged position. Time he performed like it. 

Got to admit, I really enjoyed reading this. 
Unfortunately, it's spot on. 

[jasonperry_uk]

I think Wesley's main 2 issues are:

1) His attacking positioning is atrocious. He is never in the right place when we put it into the box, and so he creates no goal threat at all. Additionally, it seems like a long time since he last made a great off-the ball run like the one that got him in position for that goal against Everton.

2) His shot power seems awfully weak. Whenever he lines up a shot, it seems to end up as a pea-roller which the goalkeeper easily scoops up (I remember Brugge fans suggested this to us when we signed him, but it doesn't appear to have been developed/worked on since he arrived) This means that he has to rely on being very close to goal for a cheeky tap-in, like against Arsenal and Norwich, but that relies upon positioning, and returns us to point 1

 

He really needs a break from first team action, and someone to genuinely improve his game in training / matches by providing serious competition for his shirt.

I think he could be great, but it's just not happening and that 'could' seems a long way off at the moment.

[Czechlad]

21 hours ago, Keyblade said:

He was superb against Everton, he honestly was. Benteke would have been proud of that performance. It's the only reason I still have some faint hope he'll eventually come good. He absolutely dominated that game and the 2 Everton CBs that night.

I am not trying to discredit that game, but that was honestly the worst football I have ever seen Everton play. Gomes was on another level of ineptitude. We could have doubled our score easily. 

[dubbs]

On 09/12/2019 at 17:57, villalad21 said:

Then they should start working with the basics. Because he can't even do the basics right at the moment.

A number of ex players have said they'll happily work 1 on 1 with him on the basics of playing in England.  We should let them try cuz what we're doing at the moment doesn't work. 

[VillanousOne]

I feel he has lost confidence and regressed, there have been games where he has shown the qualities many have said he lacks (not enough games granted) and recently he has got a lot worse. He needs to be rested and taken out of the firing line. Whether or not Kodjia is leaving in January or not he should still play and give his all for the team as we are still paying him.

If Dean doesn't want to play Kodjia he needs to call up a youngster or recall someone, to not have a striker option in the squad that you are prepared to start or bring off the bench is unacceptable when we are heading for our most important run of games of the season.

Dean has to show his managerial chops and drop the players who are consistently underperforming.