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Wesley Moraes


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20 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

Not sure that regarding any criticism of Wesley as “hating” is the most sparkling display of rational logic either. 😀

Yeah except the people who do the hating don't actually rationalise why wesley is poor. They say he can't finish and is a donkey when in reality he has the best finishing rate of any of our players. Maybe if they properly justified why they think he is crap. 

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On 01/12/2019 at 21:19, TheMelvillan said:

Played alright. Comes very deep to win balls but is still the furthest villa player forward so makes sense. Thought he used the ball quite well today and still gets shafted by the refs imho just cos he's a big fella. 

Image result for ooh matron kenneth williams

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3 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

Yeah except the people who do the hating don't actually rationalise why wesley is poor. They say he can't finish and is a donkey when in reality he has the best finishing rate of any of our players. Maybe if they properly justified why they think he is crap. 

Ok mate.

He’s poor in the air.

He’s slow.

He’s weak.

He can’t shoot.

He can’t dribble.

His hold up play is average at best. 

 

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53 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Ok mate.

He’s poor in the air.

He’s slow.

He’s weak.

He can’t shoot.

He can’t dribble.

His hold up play is average at best. 

 

Give examples. That is justifying your opinion not just going he is bad because I said so. For example he clocked the 3rd highest sprint speed for a villa player on Sunday so he isn't slow. Lingard struggled to stay on him so he isn't weak. And he played some excellent crossfield passes to trezeguet who should have done better after not particularly great balls came into him so his hold up play and vision are good. 

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41 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

Give examples. That is justifying your opinion not just going he is bad because I said so. For example he clocked the 3rd highest sprint speed for a villa player on Sunday so he isn't slow. Lingard struggled to stay on him so he isn't weak. And he played some excellent crossfield passes to trezeguet who should have done better after not particularly great balls came into him so his hold up play and vision are good. 

Interesting stat - where did you get that from?

I generally think in football that top speed is much less important than what you can do over the first 5 yards. In many ways, Wesley reminds me of those videos of Usain Bolt playing striker for that Australian club. You realise from watching Usain Bolt that the big sprinter build doesn't translate that well to football, which is more about sudden changes of direction.

I do think Wesley is looking physically sharper with every game. Although I'm worried ahead of the Chelsea game that Sunday will have taken a lot out of him.

Edit: pasting the video now - it's amazing actually how similar Bolt and Wesley are!

Edited by KentVillan
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34 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

Give examples. That is justifying your opinion not just going he is bad because I said so. For example he clocked the 3rd highest sprint speed for a villa player on Sunday so he isn't slow. Lingard struggled to stay on him so he isn't weak. And he played some excellent crossfield passes to trezeguet who should have done better after not particularly great balls came into him so his hold up play and vision are good. 

we can all use statistics. 9.25km. the distance ran by wesley on sunday. the lowest of all outfield players that started the game (aside from el ghazi, obv). trez covered more ground despite only playing 72 mins.

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14 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Doesn't really mean much if all his shots on target are gonna be weak shots to the keeper like the one he had at Man U. Davic McGoldrick is just a bit behind Wesley on that list and he has 0 goals to his name last I checked. Vardy is even more behind than either and is vastly superior than either forward.

In short, its a shit stat list by itself. Honestly think Wesley's shots on target stat is so high because he rarely if ever shoots from outside the box and a lot of his shots happen to be tap ins or very close to the 6 yard box. Which translates to a lower SpG but a higher SpG on target ratio.

Why would you want your striker to be shooting from outside the box? Smith's entire system is designed to get the ball behind the oppo's centre back's with men attacking the 6-yard box. What you're suggesting would be a complete breakdown in the system Dean has been working so hard to drill into his players.

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33 minutes ago, carewjust4u said:

Why would you want your striker to be shooting from outside the box? Smith's entire system is designed to get the ball behind the oppo's centre back's with men attacking the 6-yard box. What you're suggesting would be a complete breakdown in the system Dean has been working so hard to drill into his players.

Eh, sometimes that should be an option. Having a striker shoot from outside the box once in a while isn't that bad lol, I mean Wesley has had 2 shots outside the box which is more than he usually doesin the last couple of matches and I wouldn't say that's a "complete breakdown of Smith's system". If he's a false 9 as some people here say he is, he should probably have a few more shots from outside the box than other strikers.

But the bigger problem which I mentioned below is that he seems to not really shoot the ball unless he's really close to the goal which leads to a higher shots on target ratio. Look at all his goals, they're tap ins or very close to being tap ins. That's not really a problem in of itself, but if you're trying to argue he's a good striker because he has a higher shot on target ratio because of it than yeah, it becomes one. If you're not gonna release a shot unless you pretty much know you're going to hit it on target, you're gonna have a lower shots per game ratio which we know is one of Wesley's problems. And if you have lower shots per game, you might not score as many goals in spite of the fact that you shoot more of what shots you do have on target. So that statistic can become meaningless.

 

Edited by Laughable Chimp
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54 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

we can all use statistics. 9.25km. the distance ran by wesley on sunday. the lowest of all outfield players that started the game (aside from el ghazi, obv). trez covered more ground despite only playing 72 mins.

In the other hand he is a striker and our wingers are expected to pull double duty when defending. So whilst he didn't run as far as anyone else him even getting close to the others show how hard he worked. 

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1 hour ago, MotoMkali said:

Give examples. That is justifying your opinion not just going he is bad because I said so. For example he clocked the 3rd highest sprint speed for a villa player on Sunday so he isn't slow. Lingard struggled to stay on him so he isn't weak. And he played some excellent crossfield passes to trezeguet who should have done better after not particularly great balls came into him so his hold up play and vision are good. 

Give examples of him dribbling with the ball, beating a man, heading the ball towards goal and creating a yard for a shot.

80% of the posters on here think he's dreadful but you're desperately trying to justify his quality/purchase with stats like '3rd highest sprint speed' and a couple of decent cross field passes. His overall play is dreadful and you know it! 
Like I said in a previous post, he will be replaced in January and all this nonsense will go away. You'll remember what a decent striker looks like soon enough 😉 I trust the club to get it right.

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He's improving, I don't think he was as bad as some say. Yes he was, but lately he's improving. I'm still not sure if he's a long term solution, he still needs to show other improvements. But when you compare him with his first couple of games, you'll definitely find difference.

His shots is one of his worse attributes. My god, its really awful.

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28 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Give examples of him dribbling with the ball, beating a man, heading the ball towards goal and creating a yard for a shot.

80% of the posters on here think he's dreadful but you're desperately trying to justify his quality/purchase with stats like '3rd highest sprint speed' and a couple of decent cross field passes. His overall play is dreadful and you know it! 
Like I said in a previous post, he will be replaced in January and all this nonsense will go away. You'll remember what a decent striker looks like soon enough 😉 I trust the club to get it right.

You don't have to be good at beating men to be a good player. I think he beat a man at Newcastle but that isn't his game. He is supposed to receive the ball to feet and pick a man out with a good pass. He has been doing that and if we nearly had a couple of goals from these passes in the past few games so he is doing something right.

As I have said he does need to improve but scapegoating a player is ridiculous. He clearly wasn't intended to be the only striker we signed or had but unlucky injuries and an inability to get a player over the line has left us with him. Complaining about him isn't helping especially when half the complaints are we are only playing with 10 men and he drops to deep links up play but doesn't get in the box. These are contradictory statements. Yes he needs better off the ball movement but so does our entire team. He hasn't had a huge number of shots lately and he and the team need to find him in dangerous positions. 

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I play footy with quite a few united fans, we were chatting about the game and all of them thought he was decent at the weekend, said he dominated lindeloff and looks a decent prospect. They were really surprised when I told them he's coming in for quite a bit of criticism for playing like that at the moment. 

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2 hours ago, carewjust4u said:

I'll just leave this here. (Excludes the "big six" clubs)

 Now I am confused. I’ve been told in this thread that his prime  role isn’t to score goals but to receive the ball and pass to other players  who will score.

So what the hell is he doing taking so many ineffective shots at goal for himself?

Do we have any stats for assists?

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1 hour ago, briny_ear said:

 Now I am confused. I’ve been told in this thread that his prime  role isn’t to score goals but to receive the ball and pass to other players  who will score.

So what the hell is he doing taking so many ineffective shots at goal for himself?

Do we have any stats for assists?

Well there's the assist stat of course, which is at 1 in 14 games, pretty self-explanatory that.

The amount of big chances he's created is 1 in 14 games, according to premierleague.com. Again, pretty self explanatory

His Expected Assists per 90 which I believe is essentially a measure of the quantity and quality of chances he's created from a pass of his. Aka, from tthe passes he's made, what are the expected amount of assists he should have every 90 minutes. So it should take into account all chances he's created, not just the big chances. He's 0.05 per 90 for this stat meaning he's expected to have an assist once every 20 games, well below the PL average.

Understat also has other similar stats of this vein. Key passes per 90, which is purely the amount of passes he's made that leads to a shot per 90 minutes. 0.52, well below the PL average.

The one stat he does average in is XGperbuildup90 which honestly I don't seem to really understand all that much but I think its supposed to measure how much a player contributes to a chance created if we don't count the key passes and the shots he himself makes. Basically a stat for someone like Grealish who has a reputation for being an assisster for the assisster over the actual assister or being the goal scorer himself, and Grealish is evidently well above the PL average. Wesley is on the PL average in this case.

Edit: Clarifying that the PL average is the average for Forwards and that Grealish isn't well above the PL average if you count his entire season actually, still significantly above it though But he is well above that if you count only the times he's been playing at FWL for us, almost twice the average.

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Understat also has other similar stats of this vein. Key passes per 90, which is purely the amount of passes he's made that leads to a shot per 90 minutes. 0.52, well below the PL average.

 

 

 

 

 

Is that the PL average for strikers, or for all players? Worth noting that Maupay & Vardy has an average of 0.6. Strikers by majority do not contribute key passes due to their location and involvement in later phases of play. (Source: WhoScored)

Edited by carewjust4u
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