romavillan Posted November 13, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 minute ago, turvontour said: It's just disappointing that we've paid £20-25million on someone we need to give time to develop. You can't buy a guarantee in his position for any price, but the closer you get to it the closer to a £100m you need to shell out. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 50 minutes ago, turvontour said: It's just disappointing that we've paid £20-25million on someone we need to give time to develop. Am I the only one who thinks 20 million transfer fee isn't that much money these days? For that kind of money these days you wouldn't necessarily expect a player to deliver from the get go? I think Wes was a calculated risk and has the potential to be very good. The scouts must have seen something they liked and the hope would have been to hit the ground running. Obviously we're not quite there yet however Dean Smith has to find a way to get him more support and of course Wes needs to do his bit also. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 49 minutes ago, birdman said: Am I the only one who thinks 20 million transfer fee isn't that much money these days? For that kind of money these days you wouldn't necessarily expect a player to deliver from the get go? I think Wes was a calculated risk and has the potential to be very good. The scouts must have seen something they liked and the hope would have been to hit the ground running. Obviously we're not quite there yet however Dean Smith has to find a way to get him more support and of course Wes needs to do his bit also. We're a promoted club, our financial resources isn't going to be as much as the big clubs and the man was our record signing. I think expecting a player to be able to I don't know, not be completely useless for most of the time he's out there on the field for us when he is the most amount of money the club had spent at that point for a player, is reasonable. It is also still a significant amount of money for clubs like us. If you look at the list of teams that finished in the bottom 10 last year outside the relegated ones but replace with them with the promoted teams, basically the teams we are expected to compete with Wesley is the third or fourth most expensive signing out of the 10 teams this summer. It shows, at our level, that is still a lot of money and as such the expectation for him to deliver is reasonably much higher. What gives me him some leeway is how young he is, suggesting we bought him for his potential, but not his price tag. Edited November 13, 2019 by Laughable Chimp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Willard Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 He is a working progress but has done enough to warrant a place in the Brazilian team.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 27 minutes ago, Lord Willard said: He is a working progress but has done enough to warrant a place in the Brazilian team.. Thats for the Brazilian Management and FA to decide surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornso Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Stoked for him, but if he gets an injury on international duty we might be well and truly **** up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 15 minutes ago, Hornso said: Stoked for him, but if he gets an injury on international duty we might be well and truly **** up front. If that happens and that is the worst case scenario, I have faith in Davis, I think the club do too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: If that happens and that is the worst case scenario, I have faith in Davis, I think the club do too He is still injured thou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 minute ago, sir_gary_cahill said: If that happens and that is the worst case scenario, I have faith in Davis, I think the club do too You know Davis is injured right? He won’t be back until December I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: You know Davis is injured right? He won’t be back until December I reckon. And he can't be back soon enough. Come on, Davis come back and save us from the mediocrity that is Wesley. Edited November 13, 2019 by Laughable Chimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 El ghazi up front if wes is injured assuming grealish is back. If not I think kodjia is only 1 or 2 games from returning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zab6359 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 2 hours ago, MotoMkali said: El ghazi up front if wes is injured assuming grealish is back. If not I think kodjia is only 1 or 2 games from returning. Oh lord! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 He's fee has never been the problem. Signing Wes has never been a problem. Signing him with no backup is a problem. You have to be blind not to see that he needs to be dropped. Just not good enough yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said: He's fee has never been the problem. Signing Wes has never been a problem. Signing him with no backup is a problem. You have to be blind not to see that he needs to be dropped. Just not good enough yet. I disagree he is struggling due to a lack of service. In the games he has had good service he has looked good and aside from that he has had key contribution to over 50% of our goals from open play. (4 goals 1 assist, 2 pass to assists, excellent hold up play for mcginns goal against spurs) 8 of 15 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said: He's fee has never been the problem. Signing Wes has never been a problem. Signing him with no backup is a problem. You have to be blind not to see that he needs to be dropped. Just not good enough yet. I disagree he is struggling due to a lack of service. In the games he has had good service he has looked good and aside from that he has had key contribution to over 50% of our goals from open play. (4 goals 1 assist, 2 pass to assists, excellent hold up play for mcginns goal against spurs) 8 of 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted November 14, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted November 14, 2019 2 hours ago, MotoMkali said: I disagree he is struggling due to a lack of service. In the games he has had good service he has looked good and aside from that he has had key contribution to over 50% of our goals from open play. (4 goals 1 assist, 2 pass to assists, excellent hold up play for mcginns goal against spurs) 8 of 15 the lack of service line was spouted to death with regards to hogan before everyone finally realised he wasn't good enough. i'm not saying wes is as bad as hogan, just saying that it is OK to say that a new signing has not been good enough. i'm not writing him off, i'm just saying his performances have been sub par, his effort has been lacking, and is the weakest big striker i've ever seen. he is new to the league and the country, i do believe he will be a success, but he really could do with some decent competition to give him a kick up the arse. some players are naturally lazy...i do think he is one of those...but unfortunately he knows he can do absolutely nothing all game and he'll still be in the starting XI next week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, tomav84 said: the lack of service line was spouted to death with regards to hogan before everyone finally realised he wasn't good enough. i'm not saying wes is as bad as hogan, just saying that it is OK to say that a new signing has not been good enough. i'm not writing him off, i'm just saying his performances have been sub par, his effort has been lacking, and is the weakest big striker i've ever seen. he is new to the league and the country, i do believe he will be a success, but he really could do with some decent competition to give him a kick up the arse. some players are naturally lazy...i do think he is one of those...but unfortunately he knows he can do absolutely nothing all game and he'll still be in the starting XI next week. Complete and utter bs. Wesley has shown he is good when we play nice football in games like Brighton, Norwich and Everton. He got good service and performed excellently. Hogan never performed well for us and never seemed to fit in with the squad. As for you saying wesley is lazy I think that is silly. I think wesley doesn't have much confidence and needs to start the game well for him to get going. Again when he has performed well he has been running non-stop and people have commended him for it. It doesn't help that when he uses his strength he gets called for a foul. He is currently second in the league for fouls but hasn't received a single yellow card. He is clearly getting the wrong end of lots of 50/50 decisions and if he is the one who is fouled he rarely gets the call. And once again wesley has probably contributed to more of our goals than anyone but Jack. He probably has given us the opportunity to score more goals than our second striker SJM. Also everyone continue to label him as a big target man which he isn't. He hasn't held the ball up from long balls frequently but passes in behind or too his feet he has done admirably with and it isn't his fault we are playing him as a target man (and then assuming his target is 30 yards across because that is how accurate our long balls are) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted November 14, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 minute ago, MotoMkali said: Complete and utter bs. Wesley has shown he is good when we play nice football in games like Brighton, Norwich and Everton. He got good service and performed excellently. Hogan never performed well for us and never seemed to fit in with the squad. As for you saying wesley is lazy I think that is silly. I think wesley doesn't have much confidence and needs to start the game well for him to get going. Again when he has performed well he has been running non-stop and people have commended him for it. It doesn't help that when he uses his strength he gets called for a foul. He is currently second in the league for fouls but hasn't received a single yellow card. He is clearly getting the wrong end of lots of 50/50 decisions and if he is the one who is fouled he rarely gets the call. And once again wesley has probably contributed to more of our goals than anyone but Jack. He probably has given us the opportunity to score more goals than our second striker SJM. Also everyone continue to label him as a big target man which he isn't. He hasn't held the ball up from long balls frequently but passes in behind or too his feet he has done admirably with and it isn't his fault we are playing him as a target man (and then assuming his target is 30 yards across because that is how accurate our long balls are) 3 games out of 12...the other 9 he's been anonymous, to the point it's like we had 10 men. so yes, i think he's lazy. and of those 3 he wasn't exactly amazing vs brighton (but granted, wasn't as bad as he has been), norwich was basically vs their reserves, and everton - credit due - probably his best performance and has not repeated that level since. we simply do not have time for a striker that only plays well if he 'starts the game well'. we're in a relegation battle ffs. and contributing more for goals...I've seen you post this 'pass to assist' thing a couple of times...well that's a new one for me. so we're crediting assists of assists now are we? but to reiterate - i do think he will improve...i offered a bet to another poster that he will get more goals this season than maupay and i stand by that. but it is OK to criticise him that's all. but he does need help. another good striker to come in and push him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 22 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said: We're a promoted club, our financial resources isn't going to be as much as the big clubs and the man was our record signing. I think expecting a player to be able to I don't know, not be completely useless for most of the time he's out there on the field for us when he is the most amount of money the club had spent at that point for a player, is reasonable. It is also still a significant amount of money for clubs like us. If you look at the list of teams that finished in the bottom 10 last year outside the relegated ones but replace with them with the promoted teams, basically the teams we are expected to compete with Wesley is the third or fourth most expensive signing out of the 10 teams this summer. It shows, at our level, that is still a lot of money and as such the expectation for him to deliver is reasonably much higher. What gives me him some leeway is how young he is, suggesting we bought him for his potential, but not his price tag. It's actually a not much at all for a club Villa's size. In fact had we been a premier league team for the past 3 seasons and with a decent bank balance that record would have been smashed already and be substantially more than 22 million. West Ham a traditionally smaller side, no european football spent 40 something million on Haller. This is the reality of the premier league finances these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 4 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said: He's fee has never been the problem. Signing Wes has never been a problem. Signing him with no backup is a problem. You have to be blind not to see that he needs to be dropped. Just not good enough yet. Well Brazil have called him up, Willian the Chelsea player has been impressed with him so far and his goals return this season is equal or better than any other striker new to the premier league. Your first paragraph I do agree with, your second is just plain wrong imo. 4 goals and an assist for a team 4th from bottom is a good numbers and for a fresh 22 year old (when he joined) never played in England before is impressive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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