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Wesley Moraes

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35 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

And I seem to remember there were a number of prolific strikers available when we bought him.

Who do you have in mind?

The only obvious one at this price range was Maupay IMO (who I'm surprised we didn't sign) but otherwise not clear to me that there were loads of options?

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5 hours ago, villa4europe said:

I think he's got a touch of the lukaku about him

big, muscley striker, therefore he must be a target man, commentators spend all game talking about his physicality and power but that's simply not his game, he might be able to hold a ball up if its played in to his feet, he can come deep and support when needed to but I want to see more of what we did vs everton, give him something to feed off in the box, don't just aimlessly bang it in to him and expect him to hold a man off, bring in down and smash it wherever he wants, I think he's more about movement and running on to through balls

 

I was going to say its similar to Crouch at Villa who people lazily labelled as a target man, he wasnt though some managers used him as one. 

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Libor Kozak had a better strike rate than Wesley at basically the same age, and Kozak is regarded as a shit signing on here. Kozak also was much better at holding up the ball, and played with a lot worse players than what we have now. 

Wesley is really struggling. 

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1 minute ago, Czechlad said:

Libor Kozak had a better strike rate than Wesley at basically the same age, and Kozak is regarded as a shit signing on here. Kozak also was much better at holding up the ball, and played with a lot worse players than what we have now. 

Wesley is really struggling. 

Thing is Wesley isnt a target man/hold up striker. He needs to drop deep and support the midfield with runners in behind. However we currently do not have the movement to support this especially mcginn who never comes short so we can have nice interplay. It leads to very predictable balls out wide to our fullbacks which wolves read very easily and won. 3 or 4 good attempts came from this and if jimenez was playing better we could have been down 4 by the half time whistle. Currently wes isn't performing because of our tactics and I don't think he should be blamed for it. 

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Wesley already has as many PL goals as Kozak amassed for us.

As long as Ciaran Clark don't break his leg I'm sure he'll surpass him pretty soon.

Doesn't mean Wesley is excelling thou.

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12 minutes ago, sne said:

Wesley already has as many PL goals as Kozak amassed for us.

As long as Ciaran Clark don't break his leg I'm sure he'll surpass him pretty soon.

Doesn't mean Wesley is excelling thou.

I am using minutes played because at this point in the season, kozak broke his leg and never played for us again. It's not like Kozak continued to play the rest of the season and never scored again. 

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7 minutes ago, Czechlad said:

I am using minutes played because at this point in the season, kozak broke his leg and never played for us again. It's not like Kozak continued to play the rest of the season and never scored again. 

Fractured his leg in early January but whatever.

Fail to see any point in comparing the two

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If you include Kozak's strike rate for his entire time in the PL with us its 1 goal every 260 minutes. If you're only looking before the leg break its 1 goal every 196 minutes. Wesley's rate so far is 1 goal every 258 minutes.

As a comparison to other forwards who've played the most minutes in this PL this season for each team ranked.

1-Manchester City-Sergio Aguero-1 goal every 85 minutes

2-Chelsea-Tammy Abraham-1 goal every 89 minutes

3-Leicester-Jamie Vardy-1 goal every 98 minutes

4-Arsenal-Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang-1 goal every 141 minutes

5-Southampton-Danny Ings- 1 goal every 162 minutes

6-Tottenham-Harry Kane-1 goal every 165 minutes

7-Manchester United-Anthony Martial-1 goal every 176 minutes

8-Norwich-Teemu Pukki-1 goal every 179 minutes

9-Burnley-Ashley Barnes-1 goal every 180 minutes

10-Wolves-Raul Jiminez-1 goal every 209 minutes

11-Bournemouth-Callum Wilson-1 goal every 210 minutes

12-Crystal Palace-Jordan Ayew-1 goal every 225 minutes

13-Watford-Gerard Deulofeu-1 goal every 233 minutes

14-Everton-Dominic Calvert-Lewin-1 goal every 237 minutes

15-West Ham-Sebastian Haller-1 goal every 248 minutes

16-Aston Villa-Wesley-1 goal every 258 minutes

17-Brighton-Neal Maupay-1 goal every 280 minutes

18-Liverpool-Roberto Firmino-1 goal every 321 minutes(kind of unfair to put him in here over Salah or Mane but he has played the most minutes for Liverpool)

19-Newcastle-Joelinton-1 goal every 993 minutes

20-Sheffield United-Davic McGoldrick-0 goals

 

 

Edited by Laughable Chimp

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21 hours ago, Zatman said:

I was going to say its similar to Crouch at Villa who people lazily labelled as a target man, he wasnt though some managers used him as one. 

Very clear that Wesley isn't a target-man despite his frame and watching him for Brugge. He links up play but not in the way Keinan Davis does by bringing down all kinds of balls forward. It has to be deliberate and into feet for him I noticed, that's when he's at his best. I'm sure Dean and the team aren't naive enough to buy him to be our lone target man up front.

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3 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

Thing is Wesley isnt a target man/hold up striker. He needs to drop deep and support the midfield with runners in behind. However we currently do not have the movement to support this especially mcginn who never comes short so we can have nice interplay. It leads to very predictable balls out wide to our fullbacks which wolves read very easily and won. 3 or 4 good attempts came from this and if jimenez was playing better we could have been down 4 by the half time whistle. Currently wes isn't performing because of our tactics and I don't think he should be blamed for it. 

Agreed. Let’s blame everyone else. It has nothing to do with the fact the bloke can’t dribble, shoot, beat a man, win a header or control the ball. Why on earth would we ever blame him.

Its just like the situation with super Scotty Hogan, whom I may add, is world class. If we had played to his strengths, there is no way he would be struggling to get a game at Stoke now. 

Wesley is great and everyone else should be utterly ashamed of themselves.

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Wesley will come good, he is still young & will learn. He took one huge step up from the Belgian League to what is a very tough Premier League this season. Continued coaching and mixing with the Brazil squad & coaches will gradually strengthen his game of that i'm sure.

However...

I feel it was very unfair to expect him & Kienan to hold the fort this season. They are surely both back up/secondary strikers to the main man we for some reason didn't sign. I fear it could cost us dearly come the end of the season.

Having said that & very bizarrely, scoring goals doesn't appear to be our issue. It appears to be the mental switch offs which happen resulting in late goals against. If it wasn't for that we would be very comfortable in the table at present. This for me is caused by a basic inability to keep hold of the ball & game management leading eventually to a mental pressure overload and thus basic mistakes creep in.

Edited by danceoftheshamen

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2 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

Agreed. Let’s blame everyone else. It has nothing to do with the fact the bloke can’t dribble, shoot, beat a man, win a header or control the ball. Why on earth would we ever blame him.

Its just like the situation with super Scotty Hogan, whom I may add, is world class. If we had played to his strengths, there is no way he would be struggling to get a game at Stoke now. 

Wesley is great and everyone else should be utterly ashamed of themselves.

Great comedy mate. The difference between wes and Hogan is Wesley can actually finish his dinner when he has had good chances he has generally finished well. I personally don't think we are playing to his or our own strengths. Our off the ball movement is trash and it causes us to really struggle without grealish. Everyone could see mcginn was basically playing striker against wolves and it left our midfield very isolated. Mcginn needs to play deeper so we actually keep possession.

Wesley needs to drop deeper as well so he can receive the ball and play it off to another player. But I don't blame him for supposedly poor hold up play when what he is supposed to be holding up has been kicked 20 yards away. We need interplay not isolation. As it is right now I don't think ronaldo/aguero/Kane (though they maybe would be on 5 because they would have scored the penalty) would have scored anymore goals because in the games we have given wesley good balls and link up play he has either scored or been a key contributor towards our goals.

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2 hours ago, danceoftheshamen said:

Wesley will come good, he is still young & will learn. He took one huge step up from the Belgian League to what is a very tough Premier League this season. Continued coaching and mixing with the Brazil squad & coaches will gradually strengthen his game of that i'm sure.

However...

I feel it was very unfair to expect him & Kienan to hold the fort this season. They are surely both back up/secondary strikers to the main man we for some reason didn't sign. I fear it could cost us dearly come the end of the season.

Having said that & very bizarrely, scoring goals doesn't appear to be our issue. It appears to be the mental switch offs which happen resulting in late goals against. If it wasn't for that we would be very comfortable in the table at present. This for me is caused by a basic inability to keep hold of the ball & game management leading eventually to a mental pressure overload and thus basic mistakes creep in.

It is easier to switch off when you are pinned back we need to calm down in possession and not just hoof shit balls that bounce straight back at us. It was what happened for arsenal's first goal engels tried to do a weird clearance guendouzi intercepted it and won a penalty. We need more composure late in games. 

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Some of the shit he's getting from our own fans is embarrassing 

Its not like he's gestede or heskey or harewood

He's relatively young finding his feet and we're giving him pelters and then moaning that he doesn't look confident... Idiots

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I have to admit I’m amazed he has got a call up. No way has he been good enough for Brazil. I think just playing in the Premier League holds a massive amount of weight. 
 

It’s great for him but would probably have been better for the club had he stayed at home and worked on his game. Plus the travelling won’t help.

edit: just seen its 2 friendlies in the Middle East so it should be like a break in the sun. Hopefully he comes back fit and raring to go! 

Edited by Vive_La_Villa

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Fwiw I don't think he's good enough either

I think Brazils set up has seen a £20m+ player scoring goals in the PL and decided to take a closer look at him in meaningless games, which is more refreshing than England giving the likes of barkley 50 caps before the penny drops that he's not the answer

But I'm not going to message him that on twitter 

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He needs to be more mobile. He isn't good enough in the air to be a pure target man

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Some of the comments I find baffling , he is a work in progress with plenty of room for improvement. He has shown glimpses so far of his potential and will hopefully grow. He needs proper competition from another forward to keep the pressure on him but have few doubts he will come good. Think some are getting caught up by the fact he is Brazilian and expect too much of him so soon . If we are Still having the same conversations in a year I’ll be worried but still early days to be writing him off somewhat. Have faith he will come good and let’s see without being too critical too soon 

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My worry is that I honestly don't see the raw natural ability or talent.

With the right attitude you can make it without this, to a point. And I really hope he has it because he needs to improve every aspect of his game. A lot

Obviously he can play football, he's not terrible.

But if you compare him to Benteke (young, from the Belgian league...) who also struggled his first couple of games here it's a no contest.

with him you could see there was something there. Imo Wesley is yet to show this, even with his 4 goals.

Hopefully he'll kick on and develop. Massive room for improvement.

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14 hours ago, danceoftheshamen said:

Wesley will come good, he is still young & will learn. He took one huge step up from the Belgian League to what is a very tough Premier League this season. Continued coaching and mixing with the Brazil squad & coaches will gradually strengthen his game of that i'm sure.

However...

I feel it was very unfair to expect him & Kienan to hold the fort this season. They are surely both back up/secondary strikers to the main man we for some reason didn't sign. I fear it could cost us dearly come the end of the season.

Having said that & very bizarrely, scoring goals doesn't appear to be our issue. It appears to be the mental switch offs which happen resulting in late goals against. If it wasn't for that we would be very comfortable in the table at present. This for me is caused by a basic inability to keep hold of the ball & game management leading eventually to a mental pressure overload and thus basic mistakes creep in.

It's just disappointing that we've paid £20-25million on someone we need to give time to develop. 

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