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Wesley Moraes


Tomaszk

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36 minutes ago, lexicon said:

What are the real percentages of doing that? Hoof it up to a guy who isn't great in the air, against usually at least 2 CBs who will more often than not get it away? It's a shit tactic at the best of times. 

Its not like its how we want to play, but we've been forced into that alleyway for several games already and inievitably they almost never come off and we just lose the ball. I'm not confident in the team's ability to play it from the back and I don't think this team is confident in it themselves either. So yeah, its a shit tactic but it seems like the best we've got at the moment.

 

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2 hours ago, HeyAnty said:

Its not the balls that are crossed into him im generally talking about but he is shocking at them to. 

Sometime to relieve pressure a team, will play a long ball up the field.  Our defense and midfield dont have that option because it will be coming straight back at them.  When you play one man up front like we do, his primary goal is to hold it up and let players get up along side him.  He isn't capable of it.

P.s im not advocating becoming a long ball team, but even the best teams use a long ball now and again when they are under the cosh.  Very easy to pressure a team when you know they will be very reluctant to kick it long.

Long balls aren't to relieve pressure, as even with a really good target man unless every ball is put on a 6 pence the majority of long balls are coming right back at you. That's why Pulis filled his team with big guys and or grafters.

They never relied on one one big man up top as they usually had two bigs guys plus Arnautovic on the wing. Their midfield was exclusively whelan types, their fullbacks heavily prioritised defense and were also big. 

We aren't supposed to be a long ball team. We signed Wesley to hold up balls into feet and get involved in the build up (as well as score) which he has generally done.

We aren't a long ball team as our so called long balls are generally clearances as we are under the cosh, that's not long ball its desperation.

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2 hours ago, HeyAnty said:

Its not the balls that are crossed into him im generally talking about but he is shocking at them to. 

Sometime to relieve pressure a team, will play a long ball up the field.  Our defense and midfield dont have that option because it will be coming straight back at them.  When you play one man up front like we do, his primary goal is to hold it up and let players get up along side him.  He isn't capable of it.

P.s im not advocating becoming a long ball team, but even the best teams use a long ball now and again when they are under the cosh.  Very easy to pressure a team when you know they will be very reluctant to kick it long.

Long balls aren't to relieve pressure, as even with a really good target man unless every ball is put on a 6 pence the majority of long balls are coming right back at you. That's why Pulis filled his team with big guys and or grafters.

They never relied on one one big man up top as they usually had two bigs guys plus Arnautovic on the wing. Their midfield was exclusively whelan types, their fullbacks heavily prioritised defense and were also big. 

We aren't supposed to be a long ball team. We signed Wesley to hold up balls into feet and get involved in the build up (as well as score) which he has generally done.

We aren't a long ball team as our so called long balls are generally clearances as we are under the cosh, that's not long ball its desperation.

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2 hours ago, HeyAnty said:

Its not the balls that are crossed into him im generally talking about but he is shocking at them to. 

Sometime to relieve pressure a team, will play a long ball up the field.  Our defense and midfield dont have that option because it will be coming straight back at them.  When you play one man up front like we do, his primary goal is to hold it up and let players get up along side him.  He isn't capable of it.

P.s im not advocating becoming a long ball team, but even the best teams use a long ball now and again when they are under the cosh.  Very easy to pressure a team when you know they will be very reluctant to kick it long.

Long balls aren't to relieve pressure, as even with a really good target man unless every ball is put on a 6 pence the majority of long balls are coming right back at you. That's why Pulis filled his team with big guys and or grafters.

They never relied on one one big man up top as they usually had two bigs guys plus Arnautovic on the wing. Their midfield was exclusively whelan types, their fullbacks heavily prioritised defense and were also big. 

We aren't supposed to be a long ball team. We signed Wesley to hold up balls into feet and get involved in the build up (as well as score) which he has generally done.

We aren't a long ball team as our so called long balls are generally clearances as we are under the cosh, that's not long ball its desperation.

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2 hours ago, HeyAnty said:

Its not the balls that are crossed into him im generally talking about but he is shocking at them to. 

Sometime to relieve pressure a team, will play a long ball up the field.  Our defense and midfield dont have that option because it will be coming straight back at them.  When you play one man up front like we do, his primary goal is to hold it up and let players get up along side him.  He isn't capable of it.

P.s im not advocating becoming a long ball team, but even the best teams use a long ball now and again when they are under the cosh.  Very easy to pressure a team when you know they will be very reluctant to kick it long.

Long balls aren't to relieve pressure, as even with a really good target man unless every ball is put on a 6 pence the majority of long balls are coming right back at you. That's why Pulis filled his team with big guys and or grafters.

They never relied on one one big man up top as they usually had two bigs guys plus Arnautovic on the wing. Their midfield was exclusively whelan types, their fullbacks heavily prioritised defense and were also big. 

We aren't supposed to be a long ball team. We signed Wesley to hold up balls into feet and get involved in the build up (as well as score) which he has generally done.

We aren't a long ball team as our so called long balls are generally clearances as we are under the cosh, that's not long ball its desperation.

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2 hours ago, HeyAnty said:

Its not the balls that are crossed into him im generally talking about but he is shocking at them to. 

Sometime to relieve pressure a team, will play a long ball up the field.  Our defense and midfield dont have that option because it will be coming straight back at them.  When you play one man up front like we do, his primary goal is to hold it up and let players get up along side him.  He isn't capable of it.

P.s im not advocating becoming a long ball team, but even the best teams use a long ball now and again when they are under the cosh.  Very easy to pressure a team when you know they will be very reluctant to kick it long.

Long balls aren't to relieve pressure, as even with a really good target man unless every ball is put on a 6 pence the majority of long balls are coming right back at you. That's why Pulis filled his team with big guys and or grafters.

They never relied on one one big man up top as they usually had two bigs guys plus Arnautovic on the wing. Their midfield was exclusively whelan types, their fullbacks heavily prioritised defense and were also big. 

We aren't supposed to be a long ball team. We signed Wesley to hold up balls into feet and get involved in the build up (as well as score) which he has generally done.

We aren't a long ball team as our so called long balls are generally clearances as we are under the cosh, that's not long ball its desperation.

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49 minutes ago, lexicon said:

What are the real percentages of doing that? Hoof it up to a guy who isn't great in the air, against usually at least 2 CBs who will more often than not get it away? It's a shit tactic at the best of times. 

But we appear to be set up to do this a lot. I'm not sure where the keep ball, high press mentality as gone. Perhaps we're just no where near good enough to execute that sort of plan.

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4 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

But we appear to be set up to do this a lot. I'm not sure where the keep ball, high press mentality as gone. Perhaps we're just no where near good enough to execute that sort of plan.

Think the bottom line is we have to beat the bottom teams, such as Norwich and Newcastle.  Hopefully then kick on next season if we stay in the premiership 

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1 minute ago, Digavilla said:

Does Smith play with a target man system in Brentford ? If not than why all of sudden change now ? I am puzzled as Wesley is more of a Bruce type signing than Smith ??

Our players are used to having more time on the ball and are not used to the level of pressing and skill they are now up against.

Smith is also up against better managers than he's ever been before.

We are struggling to cope and are being forced to resort to long balls more than I think we wanted to or expected.

Other teams have played together longer and are more "finished". We are still in the early stages of a rebuild.

As for Wesley I still don't know what they saw in him to make us shell out such big money. Must have been something, I'd love to hear what it was.

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I think he's got a touch of the lukaku about him

big, muscley striker, therefore he must be a target man, commentators spend all game talking about his physicality and power but that's simply not his game, he might be able to hold a ball up if its played in to his feet, he can come deep and support when needed to but I want to see more of what we did vs everton, give him something to feed off in the box, don't just aimlessly bang it in to him and expect him to hold a man off, bring in down and smash it wherever he wants, I think he's more about movement and running on to through balls

more bent than benteke

did say in the match day thread watching him yesterday reminded me of bent under McLeish, smashing 50 yard balls in his general direction, he's got 3 defenders around him and not another villa player in sight, you can moan about him not winning headers all you want but what do people actually expect him to do? its utterly pointless, blame the shit football rather than the isolated striker showing little interest, I don't want us to play davis just because he might be better at playing that style, I don't want us to play that style!

on the size of the bloke though, cant remember what he was moaning about at the ref, I think a push in the back as he jumped for a header, the arm span on this guy is mental

 

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At his last club his main attribute was dropping deep and bringing others into play, as well as his sixteen goals he also provided ten assists last season so we need to find a way to utilize that side of him as well, from everything I read and saw of him he was never a target man despite the dimensions of his outer aspect. He also had a strike partner at Club Brugge, maybe to get the best out him he needs more players around him to link up with.

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2 hours ago, cbr600rr said:

some time you have to take a step back & look at the performance of the player, look at their skill set,vision,hold up play, runs, etc etc..ohh & desire !!

Of which apart from the intangible "desire", Tammy wasn't very good at.

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3 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

But we appear to be set up to do this a lot. I'm not sure where the keep ball, high press mentality as gone. Perhaps we're just no where near good enough to execute that sort of plan.

You don't have to be good to do it. You just need good off the ball movement and patience. That is all effort and sadly at the moment we don't seem to be able to do that. 

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1 hour ago, useless said:

At his last club his main attribute was dropping deep and bringing others into play, as well as his sixteen goals he also provided ten assists last season so we need to find a way to utilize that side of him as well, from everything I read and saw of him he was never a target man despite the dimensions of his outer aspect. He also had a strike partner at Club Brugge, maybe to get the best out him he needs more players around him to link up with.

I think he needs a prolific striker beside him or in front of him in order for him to be successful.

I would love him to succeed, but I am not convinced he will.

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He was poor yesterday, and it didn't help that he was isolated up top. DS said after the first games that we needed to have players further up the pitch to get closer to him, one of the reasons why Jack was pushed forward. But now it was back to leaving him alone up top, and he is not yet good enough in his hold up play to help us out in this type of game. We should bring in someone like Crouch as a manager and teach him how to be a proper target man.

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