Wesley Moraes

[MotoMkali]

I think both keinan and Wesley have a lot of potential but I can't belive people are writing either of them off so early in the season. I like keinan and I think maybe he should start against Liverpool but that doesn't really matter because without Jack we are going to get spanked by probably a top 5 team in Europe.

I'm going to address some of the criticism I see regarding Wesley.

1) He is slow. I think once he has got going he is very quick but I do think his acceleration is very poor. I think this due to his technique which can be worked on by our staff. 

2) He is poor holding up play. This would be a valid criticism if he received long balls to him and not 30 yards away from him. There is a reason haller has won the most headers in the prem because their players find him with their long passing which ours don't do with Wesley.

3) He dives. I don't think Wesley dives but is a bit weak when feeling contact. The problem is he is so big that if he feels contact and goes down the refs don't reward what would be a foul for most other player players because he is so big. We can see this at Brighton where he turned Webster but was called for a foul because of how big he is.

Wes can certainly improve and Keinan has better all round play right now but I don't think many of the criticism levied against Wesley is fair on him or and appropriate reflection of the games he has played. 

[Philosopher]

3 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

I think both keinan and Wesley have a lot of potential but I can't belive people are writing either of them off so early in the season. I like keinan and I think maybe he should start against Liverpool but that doesn't really matter because without Jack we are going to get spanked by probably a top 5 team in Europe.

I'm going to address some of the criticism I see regarding Wesley.

1) He is slow. I think once he has got going he is very quick but I do think his acceleration is very poor. I think this due to his technique which can be worked on by our staff. 

2) He is poor holding up play. This would be a valid criticism if he received long balls to him and not 30 yards away from him. There is a reason haller has won the most headers in the prem because their players find him with their long passing which ours don't do with Wesley.

3) He dives. I don't think Wesley dives but is a bit weak when feeling contact. The problem is he is so big that if he feels contact and goes down the refs don't reward what would be a foul for most other player players because he is so big. We can see this at Brighton where he turned Webster but was called for a foul because of how big he is.

Wes can certainly improve and Keinan has better all round play right now but I don't think many of the criticism levied against Wesley is fair on him or and appropriate reflection of the games he has played. 

Mostly agree. Just point out slow acceleration is common amongst tall people, Carew was the same, and Davis is a bit slow in accelerating also. The thing with Wesley is reaction times aren't great which I believe has more to do with not being up to speed yet.

The diving thing is unfair as in Belgium or Champions league he would probably get the foul. Diving is part of the game. Wesley doesn't really dive mostly he exaggerates the contact. His hold up play has been hit and miss. But he did bully a big guy like Everton's Mina so the potential is there.

[Dr_Pangloss]

I've never seen such a dedicated effort among a handful of posters to write off a player after 10 games who happens to have scored 4, created 1 and demonstrated potential outside of that on numerous occasions. It's asinine.

[tomav84]

4 hours ago, villalad21 said:

I'm not writing him off.

I'm simply opening the idea that Davis might be better.

saying you'd sell him in jan and bring someone else in is about as close to 'writing him off' as you get IMO!

he needs to improve of course...but he's shown enough improvement in the games vs norwich and brighton for me

[villalad21]

8 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

saying you'd sell him in jan and bring someone else in is about as close to 'writing him off' as you get IMO!

he needs to improve of course...but he's shown enough improvement in the games vs norwich and brighton for me

Nope.

I'm saying if we can get someone better in i wouldn't be against the idea of getting rid as i see more potential in Davis.

Regardless, Kodjia would be the first to go so Wesley ain't leaving anytime soon.

I just want to see something from him other than the occasional tap in goal every 3 games. I still have no idea what his strengths are.

Edited October 30, 2019 by villalad21

[Guest av1]

5 hours ago, villalad21 said:

I'm not writing him off.

I'm simply opening the idea that Davis might be better.

Your post on Saturday very much sounded like you were writing him off. 

On 26/10/2019 at 21:15, villalad21 said:

Don't rate Wesley at all. Would sell him in January if we could bring someone else in.

 

[KenjiOgiwara]

I am yet to see a single convincing argument as to why he should not be benched. Or why Davis should not get the chance to do better. 

[villalad21]

5 minutes ago, av1 said:

Your post on Saturday very much sounded like you were writing him off. 

 

That's a big if.

If we can bring someone better in. Otherwise i'd keep him.

I would sell Lansbury, Taylor and Elmo as well if we could get in better replacements. Heaton as well who i am not a big fan of.

Edited October 30, 2019 by villalad21

[Philosopher]

9 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I am yet to see a single convincing argument as to why he should not be benched. Or why Davis should not get the chance to do better. 

Goals is all the argument needed. 4 in 10 as a young player new to english football.

Yes I am stating the obvious!

[villalad21]

Am i so far against him that i never want to see Wesley in a Villa shirt ever again? Absolutely not.

Would i be against the idea of selling a lesser player if we could get in a better player? No.

Edited October 30, 2019 by blandy
mod edit

[tomav84]

51 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Nope.

I'm saying if we can get someone better in i wouldn't be against the idea of getting rid as i see more potential in Davis.

Regardless, Kodjia would be the first to go so Wesley ain't leaving anytime soon.

I just want to see something from him other than the occasional tap in goal every 3 games. I still have no idea what his strengths are.

now, the issue i have is that you do actually post the occasional nugget of sense such as the bolded part. i am inclined to agree...i'd have thought his strength would be his main attribute but we've not seen that thus far

but the idea to get rid of someone after half a season is absurd for so, so many reasons. which player in their right mind would ever sign for us again knowing that if they dont absolutely smash it from day 1 then they'll be flogged? we'd be an absolute laughing stock...i'm amazed that you "wouldn't be against" that idea

[Rightdm00]

1 hour ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

I've never seen such a dedicated effort among a handful of posters to write off a player after 10 games who happens to have scored 4, created 1 and demonstrated potential outside of that on numerous occasions. It's asinine.

Thank you. A strikers job is to score goals. Everything else is secondary.  Scoring a goal in football is one of the hardest things to accomplish in any team sport. That's why strikers are valued greater than any other position on the pitch.  Yes, we would all love Wesley's hold up play and all around hustle to improve but to suggest replacing him with a striker that has shown zero ability to score goals at this level is really just the height of silliness.  

[villalad21]

1 minute ago, tomav84 said:

but the idea to get rid of someone after half a season is absurd for so

We currently have 3 strikers. That's more than enough in terms if squad depth.

If we are signing another striker someone has to go as well. That someone probably is Kodjia.

But back to this sentence of yours. If he's not the right man to lead the line why is it absurd to sign a better player and sell a lesser player?

I ask you this. If it was up to you wouldn't you have swapped Wesley with Maupay in a heartbeat?

[villalad21]

4 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

Thank you. A strikers job is to score goals. Everything else is secondary.  Scoring a goal in football is one of the hardest things to accomplish in any team sport.

And 50 % of those goals came against a injury rammed Norwich side.

1 of the goal came against a Everton side that is looking more like relegation contenders than top half contenders this season. With a manager being the betting sites favorite to get the sack.

1 goal against 10 men Arsenal.

The other 7 games he's been terrible. Davis did more in 10 minutes than Wesley did in all those 7 games.

Edited October 30, 2019 by villalad21

[KenjiOgiwara]

32 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

Goals is all the argument needed. 4 in 10 as a young player new to english football.

Yes I am stating the obvious!

Not an argument that's very convincing, but that's been covered to death in these threads. 

[tomav84]

3 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

We currently have 3 strikers. That's more than enough in terms if squad depth.

If we are signing another striker someone has to go as well. That someone probably is Kodjia.

But back to this sentence of yours. If he's not the right man to lead the line why is it absurd to sign a better player and sell a lesser player?

I ask you this. If it was up to you wouldn't you have swapped Wesley with Maupay in a heartbeat?

because it's not that simple...he's in a new country, barely speaks the lingo, away from his kids, etc. to just say "we've identified a target that we think is better so we're selling you" after half a season would make the club absolute arseholes and one i would be ashamed to support. and that's assuming that we KNOW he's not the right man to lead the line...how can we possibly know that already?? hence why you sir, are being accused of writing him off.

to answer your question, no right now for the above reason i would not sell wesley and replace with maupay. however, i was impressed with him when he came to VP the other week and i would say he is looking at more of a complete player to wesley...but there's no reason to suggest he'd have been any good in this villa side.

and i wouldnt say kodj is nailed on to be the one to go, i wouldn't put it past them to send davis out on loan if we got another striker in. see if he can find his goalscoring boots somewhere.

[villalad21]

9 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

to answer your question, no right now for the above reason i would not sell wesley and replace with maupay. however, i was impressed with him when he came to VP the other week and i would say he is looking at more of a complete player to wesley...but there's no reason to suggest he'd have been any good in this villa side.

Are you actually serious? You wouldn't take Maupay ahead of Wesley.

A player that has worked wonders for Smith before and is clearly the superior player in almost every aspect of his game. Better passer, better dribbler, better shooter, more technical, quicker, more mobile, better to press.

Maupay would make us more deadlier on the counter. And because of his great link up play would be far better for us in open play as well.

Edited October 30, 2019 by villalad21

[tomav84]

1 minute ago, villalad21 said:

Are you actually serious? You wouldn't take Maupay ahead of Wesley.

A player that has worked wonders for Smith before and is clearly the superior player in almost every aspect of his game. Better passer, better dribbler, better shooter, more technical, quicker, more mobile, better to press.

Maupay would make us so much deadlier on the counter. And because of his great link up play would be far better for us in open play as well.

i wouldn't for the reason i gave.

in terms of who is the better premiership player, the jury is out, as it's too early to judge either of them. look at pukki at the start of the season...we'd have had him playing for us in a heartbeat...and he's done **** all in weeks. you have to give them till the end of the season as an absolute minimum before you can judge.

i want to see more from wes...as many do...but i'd actually wager that he will improve, and he'll score more goals this season than maupay. in fact...you fancy it? loser donates £10 to villatalk?

[villalad21]

3 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

look at pukki at the start of the season...we'd have had him playing for us in a heartbeat

Nope we would not.

Too old. Doesn't fit the player profile the board and Smith are aiming for.

This transfer plan of ours i'm fully behind. Wouldn't want Vardy either. Good, young players that can increase in value is the best model moving forward.

Edited October 30, 2019 by villalad21

[Philosopher]

34 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Nope we would not.

Too old. Doesn't fit the player profile the board and Smith are aiming for.

This transfer plan of ours i'm fully behind. Wouldn't want Vardy either. Good, young players that can increase in value is the best model moving forward.

Then you should get behind Wesley because he fits that profile exactly.