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Wesley Moraes

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2 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

19 years old at the time..

Give the guy a break.

Dont remember any of our strikers hitting double figures that season.

Albert our top scorer i believe.

Ah that's interesting, so now age and experience become a factor.

It's the answer to the question of "can he score with a run of 10 games in the league". Two years ago the answer was emphatically no, in a lower league.

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53 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Davis made 28 appearances in 17/18, about 15 of them starts, and he scored a grand total of...2 goals.

He did. And he contributed to the team more than Wes has been doing in the majority of games this season. It's a problem, one striker looks more of a goalscorer, but not massively so, the other looks more consistent in the rest of his play, but lacks a finishing instinct. It's the area that's letting us down. I can see arguments for playing each of them. Personally I think we're going to get to the point soon where Kienan has to replace Wes, for a spell, unless he comes good soon. Neither of them are anything like the complete forward that we need to prosper in their league, neither are terrible either, but we are short of a goalscorer up front and in that situation, which of the two will most help the side? maybe it's going to be a case of giving them each a run in the side, then a rest away from it for a while to allow them to have a breather from the relentless nature of it at relatively young ages.

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54 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

If he's not considered good enough to get a game on Wednesday, it'd really make you wonder what they were thinking only bringing in one striker.

I think they tried to get someone else but just couldn’t get the right deal at the time.

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5 minutes ago, blandy said:

He did. And he contributed to the team more than Wes has been doing in the majority of games this season. It's a problem, one striker looks more of a goalscorer, but not massively so, the other looks more consistent in the rest of his play, but lacks a finishing instinct. It's the area that's letting us down. I can see arguments for playing each of them. Personally I think we're going to get to the point soon where Kienan has to replace Wes, for a spell, unless he comes good soon. Neither of them are anything like the complete forward that we need to prosper in their league, neither are terrible either, but we are short of a goalscorer up front and in that situation, which of the two will most help the side? maybe it's going to be a case of giving them each a run in the side, then a rest away from it for a while to allow them to have a breather from the relentless nature of it at relatively young ages.

It's a conundrum we have on the wings too. If you rolled the 2 players into one you'd have the player we're looking for. As it stands, I guess Dean prioritizes the goalscoring over the general play because unlike under Bruce we're not totally reliant on a striker that can hold up play and bring others into it where Davis made much more sense. I suspect if Kodjia was fit we might have seen him come in for Wes a few times.

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Let's hope Davis gets a start vs Wolves and shows he can score.

My gut feeling is we need another proven goal scorer in Jan to take the pressure off Wes... as he shouldn't be undroppable, but Kodjia and Davis at this level are just as risky unknowns and neither should be relied on to get the goals/performances when Wes isn't.

But people will always slag Kodjia off, even when at the end of last season he came into the team and scored the goals that helped cement us in the play offs.

Edited by VillanousOne

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1 minute ago, Keyblade said:

It's a conundrum we have on the wings too. If you rolled the 2 players into one you'd have the player we're looking for.

Agreed. A lot of our game seems to revolve around putting balls in from out wide, but again, neither Wes nor Kienan has looked like finishing from those chances.

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1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

Ah that's interesting, so now age and experience become a factor.

It's the answer to the question of "can he score with a run of 10 games in the league". Two years ago the answer was emphatically no, in a lower league.

And now he's 2 years older and us fans won't know how he's developed since then until he get's a run of games.

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44 minutes ago, blandy said:

He did. And he contributed to the team more than Wes has been doing in the majority of games this season. It's a problem, one striker looks more of a goalscorer, but not massively so, the other looks more consistent in the rest of his play, but lacks a finishing instinct. It's the area that's letting us down. I can see arguments for playing each of them. Personally I think we're going to get to the point soon where Kienan has to replace Wes, for a spell, unless he comes good soon. Neither of them are anything like the complete forward that we need to prosper in their league, neither are terrible either, but we are short of a goalscorer up front and in that situation, which of the two will most help the side? maybe it's going to be a case of giving them each a run in the side, then a rest away from it for a while to allow them to have a breather from the relentless nature of it at relatively young ages.

Good post. Here's a question. If Davis had played the 10 matches Wes has including his penalty, what do you reckon Davis would be at in terms of goals? 

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4 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

And now he's 2 years older and us fans won't know how he's developed since then until he get's a run of games.

Okay...but this is the PL. You know what, let's also recall Andre Green and Callum O'Hare and give them starts in this league to see how they've developed. I mean, we'll never know until we try right? Hell, at least they've actually been playing first team football.

Keinan ideally shouldn't even be in this position. We should have loaned him out to a top half Championship team to see what he can do, but as it stands we need him as cover because we couldn't find another CF in the summer. 

The clamouring for him to start in the league based on a few decent cameos is pretty typical. We were seeing the same thing a couple of seasons ago with O'Hare and Grealish. It's like Salifou syndrome but with academy players. Maybe I'll call it Delfouneso syndrome.

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29 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Okay...but this is the PL. You know what, let's also recall Andre Green and Callum O'Hare and give them starts in this league to see how they've developed. I mean, we'll never know until we try right? Hell, at least they've actually been playing first team football.

Keinan ideally shouldn't even be in this position. We should have loaned him out to a top half Championship team to see what he can do, but as it stands we need him as cover because we couldn't find another CF in the summer. 

The clamouring for him to start in the league based on a few decent cameos is pretty typical. We were seeing the same thing a couple of seasons ago with O'Hare and Grealish. It's like Salifou syndrome but with academy players. Maybe I'll call it Delfouneso syndrome.

Davis wouldn't be in the squad if he was on the same level as those.

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21 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

So when someone is born in 1970 you don't just do quick math, you actually ask for the date of birth? Ok. 

If I needed to know their birthday I would ask for the full birthday. If I needed to know their age, I'd ask for their age. I've never asked someone to confirm the year they were born in and can't imagine what scenario I would need to?

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8 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Davis wouldn't be in the squad if he was on the same level as those.

He's only in the squad because we have just 2 senior CFs at the club, one of them with a patchy recent injury record. Just like Green would still be here if all we had were El Ghazi and Jota. 

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6 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

He's only in the squad because we have just 2 senior CFs at the club, one of them with a patchy recent injury record. Just like Green would still be here if all we had were El Ghazi and Jota. 

I don't think that's true at all.

That's all your theory. I think the coaching staff have great belief in Davis.

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In the summer nobody was imagining that Davis would be in our plans this season at all with most saying that he needed to be sent on loan to a championship club for his own development. If Kodjia hadn't have gotten injured he would have hardly featured at all this season, even from the bench. Even if he plays against Wolves, unless he plays expectionally well it isn't going to be seen as enough to displace Wesley, as Wolves will be playing a weakened back line, especially after Boly's injury and them not wanting to risk any more injuries in that position.

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4 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

I don't think that's true at all.

That's all your theory. I think the coaching staff have great belief in Davis.

You don't think if we signed Maupay he wouldn't be on loan at Preston or something? He's here due to circumstances, which could be a blessing for him in all honesty.

The coaching team definitely have high hopes for his future, but the fact that he's played a total of 74 PL minutes this season despite ostensibly being second in the pecking order is quite telling.

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2 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

You don't think if we signed Maupay he wouldn't be on loan at Preston or something? He's here due to circumstances, which could be a blessing for him in all honesty.

The coaching team definitely have high hopes for his future, but the fact that he's played a total of 74 PL minutes this season despite ostensibly being second in the pecking order is quite telling.

If we had signed Maupay we wouldn't have signed Wesley so no.

In fact considering Kodjia's age and injury record i think he would be gone before Davis.

Edited by villalad21
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1 minute ago, villalad21 said:

If we had signed Maupay we wouldn't have signed Wesley so no.

In fact considering Kodjia's age and injury record i think he would be gone before Davis.

We were having discussions with Brentford about Maupay (and Benrahma) after we signed Wesley so that's not true. It just didn't materialize and so we were forced to keep Keinan at the club when a loan would have benefited him way more.

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3 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

We were having discussions with Brentford about Maupay (and Benrahma) after we signed Wesley so that's not true. It just didn't materialize and so we were forced to keep Keinan at the club when a loan would have benefited him way more.

I remember the Benrahma rumours.

If this is true the board really screwed up.

Maupay is twice the player.

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3 hours ago, villalad21 said:

I remember the Benrahma rumours.

If this is true the board really screwed up.

Maupay is twice the player.

And yet Wesley has 4 goals, 1 assist this season, and Maupay has 4 goals, 0 assists.

I like Maupay, and tbh I do think he's currently a better player than Wesley, but we're rushing to judgment on Wesley far too early here. He's doing okay, and there's definitely a lot of raw potential there.

With young players you have to look at their potential, and whether they can be coached to hit that level consistently. For me that Everton game alone says that we should persist with Wesley. Until we see that kind of all-round performance from Davis (Wednesday is his big opportunity) then I think it's madness to see him as the better prospect, just because he has these little 20 minutes cameos of doing one or two good things, and "cares more".

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Yeah, if we can get Everton Wesley to come out more consistently, £22m will look like peanuts.

That's the job our coaching staff have undertaken as relayed by Purslow. We have to polish rough diamonds. We don't have the pull nor the financial standing at the moment to buy the finished article, and I'm fine with that. I was worried that we might get relegated before the team can gel, but I'm not worried about it anymore.

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