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Wesley Moraes

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I’m reading a lot of he can develop, he’s raw, he started playing football at 16, he had a strike partner in belgium...

So basically you guys are saying if we had a 16 year old who started playing football last year when he played as part of a 6 man attack for the Arthur Terry B team... we should all cut him some slack and allow him to develop?

No.  

When the ball bounces off his chest to the opposition every single time.. when our attacks basically come to a standstill because there’s 0% chance of him beating his man, or getting some kind of troubling shot off.. you’ve got to start thinking that he’s not got the right tools for the job at hand.

Quite frankly, I don’t blame him for yesterday’s performance.  Smith should have known full well that we’d be under the cosh for 90% of the game.  We needed someone who could hold on to the ball and bully a defender more than someone who was likely to nicely tuck away a tap in.

I said earlier that Davis looked twice the player when he came on, and some have disagreed.

However, in the short time he was on the field, there was a city defender on the floor in pain.  He got the ball to the byline and got a cross in, and he bore down on the keeper and almost nipped it past him.  

Davis has to start against Liverpool.  Or we can expect more of the same.

Let Wesley start against Watford.

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3 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

That is bollocks. There's nothing definite about potential when you assess current performance. 

You said he hasn't been a success and should be replaced in January, that is fairly definitive in my book.

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1 minute ago, Thug said:

So basically you guys are saying if we had a 16 year old who started playing football last year when he played as part of a 6 man attack for the Arthur Terry B team... we should all cut him some slack and allow him to develop?

Basically, no. Nobody is saying that.

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1 minute ago, TrentVilla said:

He doesn't have any attributes that you can work with? If that is your view on the lad then no point us discussing him any further.

I genuinely don’t. I don’t know what he’s good at. He’s so, so limited in what he can do Trent.

People are clinging onto the fact that he ‘brings others into play’. I could do that. 

The only thing I’m clinging onto is the run and finish against Everton. I think he’s been exceptionally poor outside of that to be honest. Frustrating as I think we have a good team around him.

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Just now, TrentVilla said:

You said he hasn't been a success and should be replaced in January, that is fairly definitive in my book.

Yes he hasn't been a success. And we should buy in a replacement  to rotate with in January. It doesn't mean he can't come good, it just means I think we can't risk going into the second half of a season with Wesley. He is currently potential and little more. We need to get in someone that can deliver in the first team right away. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

I genuinely don’t. I don’t know what he’s good at. He’s so, so limited in what he can do Trent.

People are clinging onto the fact that he ‘brings others into play’. I could do that. 

The only thing I’m clinging onto is the run and finish against Everton. I think he’s been exceptionally poor outside of that to be honest. Frustrating as I think we have a good team around him.

The best bit is when we are breaking away and we pass the ball to him, EVERYTHING stops up. He is so uncomfortable with the ball in his feet. He has no idea how to go past a player. 

My arsenal mates texted me yesterday and genuinly asked what the point was of having a player like Wesley when you played as a newly promoted team in the PL, and would be under pressure a lot. They thought maybe we should consider a striker that could a) bring the team up the pitch, win headers or even have pace enough to get into the box. It's hard to argue they don't have a point. 

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7 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Okey this is said a lot. What's his strengths we need to play on? 

He can't head. 
He can't challenge and move past a player. 

He doesn't seem especially fast, nor does he like to move into channels. 

He doesn't like to get physical.

He doesn't know how to shoot.

Assuming we agree on his 2 yard finishing (or tap ins) is his strength, is that really the excuse? We are not seeing the best of him since we aren't giving him enough tap ins?

He seems alright at passing backwards. Why would we then play him and not another midfielder? 

 

He's decent with the ball in to feet, imo, he's good at bringing players into the game (he seems to instinctively want to push the ball wide to the winger when he has his back to goal receiving the ball, which works for us with the reliance on width), he has a decent poaching instinct, he does have strength (but needs to grow out of the South American going to ground).

He's crap in the air, he's not that fast, isn't the kind of forward who is going to do the hyperactive toddler impression chasing all over the pitch, and worst of all he's a moody bastard.

Make no mistake, I don't really like Wesley very much. I hate his attitude and I'm not at all happy we've been left relying on him. But I can see there's ability and he's already scoring more than I thought he would - I figured he'd struggle to get to double figures but he's on 4 already. So I'm not going to write him off, and I think he will eventually be a decent asset to us, it's just going to take a while.

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7 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Okey this is said a lot. What's his strengths we need to play on? 

He can't head. 
He can't challenge and move past a player. 

He doesn't seem especially fast, nor does he like to move into channels. 

He doesn't like to get physical.

He doesn't know how to shoot.

Assuming we agree on his 2 yard finishing (or tap ins) is his strength, is that really the excuse? We are not seeing the best of him since we aren't giving him enough tap ins?

He seems alright at passing backwards. Why would we then play him and not another midfielder? 

 

He's decent with the ball in to feet, imo, he's good at bringing players into the game (he seems to instinctively want to push the ball wide to the winger when he has his back to goal receiving the ball, which works for us with the reliance on width), he has a decent poaching instinct, he does have strength (but needs to grow out of the South American going to ground).

He's crap in the air, he's not that fast, isn't the kind of forward who is going to do the hyperactive toddler impression chasing all over the pitch, and worst of all he's a moody bastard.

Make no mistake, I don't really like Wesley very much. I hate his attitude and I'm not at all happy we've been left relying on him. But I can see there's ability and he's already scoring more than I thought he would - I figured he'd struggle to get to double figures but he's on 4 already. So I'm not going to write him off, and I think he will eventually be a decent asset to us, it's just going to take a while.

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15 hours ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

Yet when he starts he doesn't.

Yh, because I remember that time when he started ahead of Wesley... and he was utter tripe.  You remember that time?  It was... oh wait.. he hasn't started ahead of Wesley.  

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6 minutes ago, Thug said:

he hasn't started ahead of Wesley.  

Which surely shows that the management and coaches think Wesley is better and Davis is just an impact sub atm

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1 minute ago, mikeyp102 said:

Which surely shows that the management and coaches think Wesley is better and Davis is just an impact sub atm

You quoted my response to a comment that said that when Davis starts he's not looked any good.

 

But now that you made this argument clinching point, may I remind you that:

"management and coaches" thought that Tshibola was worth £5m?

"Management and coaches" thought that Gary Cahill was no good and that Zat Knight was a better option.

 

 

"Management and coaches" can be wrong.

 

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My biggest issue with him thus far is simple.....Mobility! He doesn't provide enough. Unfortunately it's something we need a lot of in a CF. We rely heavily on spaces being created for our midfielders and if he isn't constantly trying to split the opposing CB's or defensive backline to create these spaces then you are losing areas to open up on the pitch. Tammy's finishing last year was woeful at times however he would get multiple opportunities to make something happen through work rate, perseverance and all round determination. It's now why he is reaping the rewards not only last season but this also. His template was his work rate. Wes unfortunately is not displaying any sort of endeavour when it comes to work rate, perseverance or determination.

I really want him to doe well but he's had 2 good games in 10 and that isn't good enough. Take McGinn for example, his overall work rate etc massively impacts not only on his stats but his standing and value. Without this he would probably be a 6/10 instead of the regular 8/10 player. Wes isn't helping himself IMO by not pulling his finger out his arse and getting his additional 2 points out of 10 for work rate etc during games. His mobility around opposing defences is key in many ways to us winning games.    

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Have West Ham and Newcastle fans written off their more expensive strikers after a handful of games like a few have on here?

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Dominic Solanke -19 million pounds

10 games/ 0 goals

Kelechi Iheanacho - 26 million pounds 

51 games/4 goals

These strikers are around the same age and cost.  There are even more examples like Pepe over at arsenal or Joelinton at Newcastle.  Our boy Wes is out producing all of them and yet people are are actually writing him off. Crazy!

I love how those having a go at Wesley just gloss over his goal/assist tally. That is literally how you judge a striker.  Whenever transfer rumors start flying around and a striker gets linked it's the first thing that gets metioned around here.  Wes has some definite flaws and Smith sometimes waits too long before subbing him off when he has a stinker. Having said that 10 goals/5 assist at the end of the season would be considered a great success for an initial campaign. 

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With his physicality he should be running at players with the ball. A few times against City yesterday, an I've seen it before, as soon as he runs into 1-2 players he passes back or sideways to another player often losing it. An there's no pass and run.

Not sure what the coaches are telling him, but if they are coaching him correctly an he is not carrying out simple moves, he should be dropped.

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16 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

Dominic Solanke -19 million pounds

10 games/ 0 goals

Kelechi Iheanacho - 26 million pounds 

51 games/4 goals

These strikers are around the same age and cost.  There are even more examples like Pepe over at arsenal or Joelinton at Newcastle.  Our boy Wes is out producing all of them and yet people are are actually writing him off. Crazy!

I love how those having a go at Wesley just gloss over his goal/assist tally. That is literally how you judge a striker.  Whenever transfer rumors start flying around and a striker gets linked it's the first thing that gets metioned around here.  Wes has some definite flaws and Smith sometimes waits too long before subbing him off when he has a stinker. Having said that 10 goals/5 assist at the end of the season would be considered a great success for an initial campaign. 

Interesting comparison. For what it's worth Solanke is played wide off King isn't he? Iheanacho haven't played in ages. I'd say to some degree they are poor at the same stuff, but Wesley is a LOT worse in the air, taking defenders on and shots.

I don't really rate any of them, but I suspect they both would do just as well as Wesley for us. 

Joelinton also looks a LOT better than Wesley to me.

For what it's worth I don't think a lot of people are writing Wesley off. I think it's a case where he looks so poor that he needs to be rotated out in January, and if he buckles down and gets better then great. 

But I also think people are acknowledging the fact that Wesley does not seem to have any stand out attributes to work from, so I guess while they are willing to give him time on the bench to improve himself, they are not finding it likely the will make it. 

Edited by KenjiOgiwara

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What I don't understand is why people keep using CF's from other teams as to why Wes is good?! Now I'm not saying he isn't but....Isn't it also possible that some of these other players also not cut out for PL football regardless of the price tags?! 

My issues are not whether he is good or shit but his overall contribution. Not just goals either but his ability to disrupt and unease teams when he isn't scoring. 

Lets be fair here...his stats are misleading somewhat. 4 in 10 leads you to believing he is doing okay but take the goals away and there isn't much else to talk about regarding his overall contribution. That being said I'm not writing him off Just far from impressed with this supposed hard working, determined young striker that more often than not shirks from the battle rather than seek it out imo. Its nothing to do with yesterday either but the 7 other games his work rate has been poor. 

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33 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Interesting comparison. For what it's worth Solanke is played wide off King isn't he? Iheanacho haven't played in ages. I'd say to some degree they are poor at the same stuff, but Wesley is a LOT worse in the air, taking defenders on and shots.

I don't really rate any of them, but I suspect they both would do just as well as Wesley for us. 

Joelinton also looks a LOT better than Wesley to me.

For what it's worth I don't think a lot of people are writing Wesley off. I think it's a case where he looks so poor that he needs to be rotated out in January, and if he buckles down and gets better then great. 

But I also think people are acknowledging the fact that Wesley does not seem to have any stand out attributes to work from, so I guess while they are willing to give him time on the bench to improve himself, they are not finding it likely the will make it. 

The £40m striker with one goal in nine. Yeah OK. Many of these posts are jumping the shark at this stage.

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8 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

The £40m striker with one goal in nine. Yeah OK. Many of these posts are jumping the shark at this stage.

I think Wesley proves that your goal ratio doesn't necessarily (mind the spelling, hate this word) indicate how good a footballer you are

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Got to say it, he looks passive and lethargic.

We need physical pressure put on opposition defenders and big wes just is not doing it.

I need to watch him off the ball ? I have, he rarely moves more than 3 pr 4 yards.

Doesnt muscle players, doesnt close down players and looks fed up.

Not great body language and the lack of movement and effort is frustrating to watch when other players bust a gut.

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