Zatman Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, villanmac said: Hes absolutely shit, you can see the rest of the players know it as well. Reminds me of Andre Green last season who isnt football league level yet fans were always deluding themselves he would come good and were basically making up attributes that werent there. Completely bizarre 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 27, 2019 Moderator Share Posted October 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, villanmac said: Hes absolutely shit, you can see the rest of the players know it as well. Reminds me of Andre Green last season who isnt football league level yet fans were always deluding themselves he would come good and were basically making up attributes that werent there. Everyone is welcome to their own opinion obviously, personally I think this is ridiculous but that is just mine. Smith and Suso will have watched him numerous times in Belgium, they will have known what they were getting and frankly I'm happy to back their judgement over yours or mine or anyone else on here. Time will tell. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 22 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Quite clearly Wesley isn't the finished article. But he is a young, relatively inexperienced player adapting to a new league and football culture. I would also add that while £22m is a lot of money it isn't a lot of money for a PL striker, I think a lot of our fans have lost sight of that in the time we've been away. The PL is a tough league to score goals in for any striker, let alone one as inexperienced and young as Wesley but he is doing okay. At times Wesley frustrates me, at times it concerns me that he is largely our only option up front but there is something there with him. It remains to be seen if the attributes he has are enough of a foundation to build from, I actually think he will improve a lot but we will see. One thing we can be certain of with the current managerial regime is that they will coach players and develop them. He isn't helped by the fact he has had to come in an be the main man from the start, its a burden he wouldn't have had joining most PL clubs this summer and that is something that needs to be addressed. I would love us to bring Benteke back to mentor him, what a combination that could be but alas that's not going to happen. The time to judge him isn't after less than 15 games, it is way way too soon. But he isn't above criticism and personally I feel he needs to be tougher, a little more determined and offer more than he did at City. And when he’s poor after 15, people will be saying 20. He’s a really limited player and we really can’t afford to be giving our striker 15 games to see if he’s good enough. That’s almost half the season in an unforgiving league. I’ve said it before, if Smith doesn’t fancy Davis, I’d be tempted to play McGinn up top. He’d hold the ball up, he can shoot, he’ll press, he’ll roll his man and he’ll bring others into the game. Basically everything Wesley doesn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 27, 2019 Moderator Share Posted October 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Delphinho123 said: And when he’s poor after 15, people will be saying 20. He’s a really limited player and we really can’t afford to be giving our striker 15 games to see if he’s good enough. That’s almost half the season in an unforgiving league. I’ve said it before, if Smith doesn’t fancy Davis, I’d be tempted to play McGinn up top. He’d hold the ball up, he can shoot, he’ll press, he’ll roll his man and he’ll bring others into the game. Basically everything Wesley doesn’t. Obviously he is limited, he wouldn't be playing for us if he wasn't. The question is is there potential to develop, I believe there is. Can we afford to be giving our striker 15 games to develop? Well results so far indicate that we can. In an ideal world he wouldn't be playing every week, we would have more options up front, that we don't is absolutely an issue and one we need to address but its a reflection of where the squad was when we won promotion. I think playing McGinn as a striker is frankly a ridiculous idea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villanmac Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Everyone is welcome to their own opinion obviously, personally I think this is ridiculous but that is just mine. Smith and Suso will have watched him numerous times in Belgium, they will have known what they were getting and frankly I'm happy to back their judgement over yours or mine or anyone else on here. Time will tell. I'd back Smith's judgement over mine too, and pretty much any coach out there which is why for the life of me I can't understand this signing. He's the antithesis of a Dean Smith player in every possible way. It's bizarre. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 18 minutes ago, villanmac said: Hes absolutely shit, you can see the rest of the players know it as well. Reminds me of Andre Green last season who isnt football league level yet fans were always deluding themselves he would come good and were basically making up attributes that werent there. It hasn't reached Green levels of blind defence yet. Hopefully it never does because he improves. For 90% of his time on the pitch this season Wes has looked really really poor. We're a very nice team to play for as a striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 McGinn up front? Heard it all now. That exposes the level of thinking present among some of our fans. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: I’ve said it before, if Smith doesn’t fancy Davis, I’d be tempted to play McGinn up top. He’d hold the ball up, he can shoot, he’ll press, he’ll roll his man and he’ll bring others into the game. Basically everything Wesley doesn’t. It's not a move I'd make yet. Davis deserves a go. McGinn would have more goals than the magical 4 I keep hearing about if he'd played as many minutes up front as Wes this season though, definitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 27, 2019 Moderator Share Posted October 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, villanmac said: IHe's the antithesis of a Dean Smith player in every possible way. It's bizarre. Is he? I mean to me Smith is a manager who in the main buys young players with potential who he can coach into becoming better players. That has been the case with most of the players he has signed for Villa and to me Wesley fits firmly within that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Is he? I mean to me Smith is a manager who in the main buys young players with potential who he can coach into becoming better players. That has been the case with most of the players he has signed for Villa and to me Wesley fits firmly within that. Pretty sure he means technically, not the profile. Profile is spot on. Wes looks like he can't control or kick the ball properly half the time. Hopefully there's some confidence issues right now and not just a lack of technique. Edited October 27, 2019 by Tomaszk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 16 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: McGinn up front? Heard it all now. That exposes the level of thinking present among some of our fans. He was left back a few weeks ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted October 27, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted October 27, 2019 37 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Everyone is welcome to their own opinion obviously, personally I think this is ridiculous but that is just mine. Smith and Suso will have watched him numerous times in Belgium, they will have known what they were getting and frankly I'm happy to back their judgement over yours or mine or anyone else on here. Time will tell. You do have to wonder what Suso and his team have seen in him to rely on him to be our sole striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 27, 2019 Moderator Share Posted October 27, 2019 Just now, sidcow said: You do have to wonder what Suso and his team have seen in him to rely on him to be our sole striker. I think its clear they didn't want him to be our only striker added in the summer, they tried to get Maupay but they didn't want to pay what Brighton paid. We had so much to do in the summer the money only went so far. I think we will add a striker in Jan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted October 27, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted October 27, 2019 10 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: I think its clear they didn't want him to be our only striker added in the summer, they tried to get Maupay but they didn't want to pay what Brighton paid. We had so much to do in the summer the money only went so far. I think we will add a striker in Jan. They would have been better paying the Maupay price and looking for a different Wes then. They still must have seen something in him that isn't apparent right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 People keeps bringing up potential to develop. I still don't know what his strengths are. He's not quick, he can't hold the ball up, not a great passer of the ball, he doesn't press, he falls over when players barely touches him. Getting a tap in goal every 3-4 games doesn't justify a place in the starting eleven. Keinan brings so much more to the team. He did more in 10 minutes that Wesley did for the entire game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 27, 2019 Moderator Share Posted October 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, villalad21 said: People keeps bringing up potential to develop. I still don't know what his strengths are. He's not quick, he can't hold the ball up, not a great passer of the ball, he doesn't press, he falls over when players barely touches him. Getting a tap in goal every 3-4 games doesn't justify a place in the starting eleven. Keinan brings so much more to the team. He did more in 10 minutes that Wesley did for the entire game. So, in short at the age of 22 you think he has reached his peak and can’t develop. Ok. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, TrentVilla said: Everyone is welcome to their own opinion obviously, personally I think this is ridiculous but that is just mine. Smith and Suso will have watched him numerous times in Belgium, they will have known what they were getting and frankly I'm happy to back their judgement over yours or mine or anyone else on here. Time will tell. Except that's not really how scouting works. You don't know what you're getting. You can get a general idea, but you have no idea whether it will work out, and it's very difficult to assess aspects you can't just sit in the stands to observe. It's pretty clear Wesley hasn't been a success. Now like you point out above he can develop over time, and lets just hope he does. But it still doesn't change the fact we spent £ 22 million on a key position that hasn't worked out. Nor does it change the obvious case that he has to get competition / be replaced in the January window to maximise our return this season. Edited October 27, 2019 by KenjiOgiwara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Last season at his previous club he was mostly playing with a strike partner, so he's also adapting to a new system and playing as a lone forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 27, 2019 Moderator Share Posted October 27, 2019 Just now, KenjiOgiwara said: Except that's not really how scouting works. You don't know what you're getting. You can get a general idea, but you have no idea whether it will work out, and it's very difficult to assess aspects you can't just sit in the stands to observe. It's pretty clear Wesley hasn't been a success. Now like you point out below he can develop over time, and lets just hope he does. But it still doesn't change the fact we spent £ 22 million on a key position that hasn't worked out. Nor does it change the obvious case that he has to get competition / be replaced in the January window to maximise our return this season. Re scouting, yes obviously I didn’t really think that that needed stating. I don’t agree with your conclusion that Wesley hasn’t been a success, I think that statement is premature. I’ve already said we need another striker, I don’t though think he needs to be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: So, in short at the age of 22 you think he has reached his peak and can’t develop. Ok. Keinan is 2 years younger and look more promising. Edited October 27, 2019 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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