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Tomaszk

Wesley Moraes

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He just doesn't look a threat when he picks the ball up on the edge of the box. Am I the only one noticing that?

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7 minutes ago, Enda said:

He just doesn't look a threat when he picks the ball up on the edge of the box. Am I the only one noticing that?

his shots from distance are pretty weak, like 8 years old shoot harder. 

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1 hour ago, KentVillan said:

I think his strengths are:

  • He is usually very good at bringing down the long ball (today he wasn't so good, but most games he does this well)
  • His passing accuracy is usually pretty good
  • He doesn't rush anything
  • He seems mentally very calm when he gets a chance
  • He's a good finisher off his feet in a one-on-one situation
  • When he's playing well, he tracks back well
  • Despite the Norwich penalty, I think he's actually a decent penalty taker

Obviously he has some big weaknesses as well:

  • Extremely slow
  • Can't beat a man
  • Very poor in the air for someone of his height
  • Attitude problems when the game isn't going his way

These weaknesses are particularly noticeable when we play him as a traditional lone striker. When we play him as more of a False 9, his strengths become more obvious.

While Davis has a bit more explosive pace, and is better at beating a man, I think he lacks some of Wesley's link-up play abilities, and also lacks Wesley's calm finishing.

So that's my opinion on the two players. I'd be inclined to keep giving Davis chances (ideally a bit earlier in the game) but I think people are rushing to conclusions about both players.

I agree with all of this, would just say Davis' link up play has always looked good to me. And another weakness of Wesley is that he doesn't attack crosses! Aerial ones or low ones.

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34 minutes ago, Enda said:

He just doesn't look a threat when he picks the ball up on the edge of the box. Am I the only one noticing that?

Agreed. It's like all he can do is look for a simple layoff. He doesn't strike as me the type to get a yard for himself and smash one top corner.

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1 hour ago, Enda said:

He just doesn't look a threat when he picks the ball up on the edge of the box. Am I the only one noticing that?

I agree, seems like he just waits for someone to pass it to. The few shots he has had from distance have been really weak. Though he scored one in the Champions League against Monaco that suggests otherwise, at around 1.00 in the clip below. DS also said that one thing he liked with Wesley was his ability to score all type of goals. But we certainly haven't seen any good strikes from distance from him yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56U9f_Nkt68

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9 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Pretty tired of him winning almost no ball. Team must be very tired of it.

Why can Jesus who is half his size win a header against Mings to assist? Why can he bump Mings off and lay off a long ball that wasn't much good into him. That's not a huge technical thing, I don't expect Wes to be as good a footballer as Jesus. He should be able to hold the ball up better than him though. He should be able to move and position himself to at least compete for balls forward.

Maybe I'm being harsh. City obviously great, but it just feels like Wes wins nothing unless it's right into his feet, even then someone can come through and take it without him holding them off 90% of the time. So easy to play against. He's certainly now the main weak point now Taylor is gone for me.

We're a dream to play for as a striker. All you have to do is hold the ball up and wait in the box, the chances will definitely come. If  We were brilliant first 20 mins v Norwich partly because Wes was duffing up their CBs and winning or at least trying to win every knock forwards.

Keinan looked lively. Think I'd start him v Pool. We've got to send some sort of message to Wes, may as well do it in a match we're likely to lose anyway. These 2/10 performances are not acceptable. He's good enough and these below par performances look like an effort thing to me even if they aren't. Defenders brushing him aside like he's not there and him watching on as CBs head the ball away? People would be hammering Keinan if he was doing it as it's very poor.

Had a while to digest the game. Don't think any of the angrier people than me saying he looks absolutely trash are wrong sadly.

Looks very much to be worst of our summer buys. Has anyone seen a striker worse than him this season? If we had some old mug who can't move like Glenn Murray or Jay Rodriguez we'd have more points and they'd have more goals than Wes.

We overpaid to secure the work permit from memory. Wonder what we really valued him at? ~£15m?

Needs to be dropped to try and light a fire or something. Looks like he can't play football half the time. Stumbles around not challenging for anything and can't control or kick the ball properly.

Prove me wrong Wesley.

Edited by Tomaszk

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Had me cursing a few times again today, 

Even his throwin was shit! 

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1 minute ago, Kingman said:

Had me cursing a few times again today, 

Even his throwin was shit! 

Yes, I did laugh though. 

Absolutely crap.

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He's very frustrating but there are qualities there worth persisting with.

He has all the attributes of being a target man but he's not really very good at it, which is why Davis looks better in games like this one where we need the ball to stick up front the few times we manage to get hold of it.

I echo the sentiment of someone on here who said he's much better as a false 9. He's similar to Hourihane in that he's a front foot player. When we're playing well, he's playing well and he links up the play well and is a good finisher. 

Just like we took Hourihane out of the firing line for today's game, we should have done with Wesley but we made the mistake of not buying another striker to share the workload with him, perhaps a more experienced one. As it stands we have Wesley and then Davis who's just as raw and can't seem to buy a goal. The good news is, we got this horrible fixture out of the way. The only real dilemma between now and January is whether to play Davis against Liverpool. Since we're likely to be more on the front foot against them at home than City away I'm inclined to stick with Wes, but I wouldn't mind giving Davis a crack. Not an ideal situation, but that's what we'll have to deal with until January.

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31 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

He's very frustrating but there are qualities there worth persisting with.

He has all the attributes of being a target man but he's not really very good at it, which is why Davis looks better in games like this one where we need the ball to stick up front the few times we manage to get hold of it.

I echo the sentiment of someone on here who said he's much better as a false 9. He's similar to Hourihane in that he's a front foot player. When we're playing well, he's playing well and he links up the play well and is a good finisher. 

Just like we took Hourihane out of the firing line for today's game, we should have done with Wesley but we made the mistake of not buying another striker to share the workload with him, perhaps a more experienced one. As it stands we have Wesley and then Davis who's just as raw and can't seem to buy a goal. The good news is, we got this horrible fixture out of the way. The only real dilemma between now and January is whether to play Davis against Liverpool. Since we're likely to be more on the front foot against them at home than City away I'm inclined to stick with Wes, but I wouldn't mind giving Davis a crack. Not an ideal situation, but that's what we'll have to deal with until January.

Trouble is, we don't want too many like that if we want to stay up.

I want players who can drag you back in to a game.

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The one thing I can't shake about big Wes, despite sticking up for him so far. Is that on the break in situations were we have 3 on 3 and flying forward. Unless he is put clean through one on one he looks absolutely incapable of running with the ball at his feet, so unable to buy himself half a yard to shoot.

Never shifts the ball and hits it. It's sooo slow and cumbersome with ball at feet near edge of area.

I genuinely don't think I've ever seen anyone else as obviously poor in that position. It's quite striking.

 

It leads to lots of our fast breaks petering out and he usually just passes it back or square

Edited by ramshackler
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10 hours ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

Yes against against a league 2 team that we won 6-1 against and a Brighton side that had 7 academy players. And based on the pre season games and the starts the season before he was injured when he got 2 goals in 17 starts and 28 apps in the Championship.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want this to turn into me being against Davis, far from. I like him a lot. He has good target player skills, shows some impressive silky technique at times and seems to have a good attitude. He is young and will hopefully improve.

I just don't agree that he is twice the player Wesley is and that you and a couple of others are unfairly harsh on Wesley, and wrongfully uses Davis as an argument for having a go as Wesley. 

We have goals all over the team. Hourihane, Jack, McGinn, El Ghazi.

Not saying Keinan will score as many although Wesley's scoring record so far isn't even that good.

What Keinan will do is being a good target man, bringing people into play, bring more energy.

He will bring more to the team than Wesley who gives you a tap in goal every 3 games.

Ask yourself this. What does Wesley bring to the team when he doesn't score? He offers nothing.

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1 hour ago, ramshackler said:

The one thing I can't shake about big Wes, despite sticking up for him so far. Is that on the break in situations were we have 3 on 3 and flying forward. Unless he is put clean through one on one he looks absolutely incapable of running with the ball at his feet, so unable to buy himself half a yard to shoot.

Never shifts the ball and hits it. It's sooo slow and cumbersome with ball at feet near edge of area.

I genuinely don't think I've ever seen anyone else as obviously poor in that position. It's quite striking.

 

It leads to lots of our fast breaks petering out and he usually just passes it back or square

Has anyone ever seen him beat a man with the ball at his feet?

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11 hours ago, KentVillan said:

 

  • When he's playing well, he tracks back well

Obviously he has some big weaknesses as well:

  • Extremely slow
  • Can't beat a man
  • Very poor in the air for someone of his height
  • Attitude problems when the game isn't going his way

 

Well that's a backhanded compliment if I've ever seen one. But ye, you're right.

I would add more though. 

5) he can't shoot.

6) he is poor at the physical game

7) doesn't work hard

8 ) embarrassing diving

So the question is whether a lazy, sulky, soft, slow, diving, poor shooting, can't beat a man, poor in the air striker is good enough not to be replaced as soon as possible. We all know the answer here. 

Doesn't mean his career is over. He just needs to develop to continue to be a starter. 

Edited by KenjiOgiwara

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8 hours ago, Keyblade said:

He's very frustrating but there are qualities there worth persisting with.

He has all the attributes of being a target man but he's not really very good at it, which is why Davis looks better in games like this one where we need the ball to stick up front the few times we manage to get hold of it.

I echo the sentiment of someone on here who said he's much better as a false 9. He's similar to Hourihane in that he's a front foot player. When we're playing well, he's playing well and he links up the play well and is a good finisher. 

Just like we took Hourihane out of the firing line for today's game, we should have done with Wesley but we made the mistake of not buying another striker to share the workload with him, perhaps a more experienced one. As it stands we have Wesley and then Davis who's just as raw and can't seem to buy a goal. The good news is, we got this horrible fixture out of the way. The only real dilemma between now and January is whether to play Davis against Liverpool. Since we're likely to be more on the front foot against them at home than City away I'm inclined to stick with Wes, but I wouldn't mind giving Davis a crack. Not an ideal situation, but that's what we'll have to deal with until January.

I think he's absolutely all over the place as a player and doesn't know what he wants to do and cannot put everything together at once. 

My main gripe with him has been that he doesn't make enough good runs into space in the box, there's a thoughtlessness to how he goes about that, often just floating around near a marker. However he showed with his goals against Arsenal and Norwich that he can make these runs and score with clever finishing. So it's perplexing that he has seemingly abandoned this in his last two matches. Moreover, his hold up play against Everton was borderline world class against decent centre halves but he has seldom shown this since.

He clearly has evidenced a lot of the 'raw materials' that we need whilst having almost a 1 in 2 ratio, but he does need a lot of coaching and it crucially has to sink in. More competition would also benefit so it's crucial that we get a good forward in January cos Davis sure isn't the answer.

Edited by Dr_Pangloss
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13 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

8 ) embarrassing diving

Main reason why i dislike him as a player.

Last player in a Villa shirt i genuinely disliked was Lescott.

Edited by villalad21

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21 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

I think he's absolutely all over the place as a player and doesn't know what he wants to do and cannot put everything together at once. 

My main gripe with him has been that he doesn't make enough good runs into space in the box, there's a thoughtlessness to how he goes about that, often just floating around near a marker. However he showed with his goals against Arsenal and Norwich that he can make these runs and score with clever finishing. So it's perplexing that he has seemingly abandoned this in his last two matches. Moreover, his hold up play against Everton was borderline world class against decent centre halves but he has seldom shown this since.

He clearly has evidenced a lot of the 'raw materials' that we need whilst having almost a 1 in 2 ratio, but he does need a lot of coaching and it crucially has to sink in. More competition would also benefit so it's crucial that we get a good forward in January cos Davis sure isn't the answer.

He's the equivalent of an 18 year old in terms of rawness. He only started playing football at 16 and has a lot of coaching to still take in. There are so many aspects of his game that need polishing that most players his age have already sorted out, but the raw ingredients are there. It's just more work for our coaching staff to do.

Regarding those runs in the penalty box, I think he really improved them from his first few games. Hard to judge against City because we were hardly on the box, but off the top of my head recently in addition to those 2 goals there was the cross from Guilbert that was just a little off in the first half against Brighton that he attacked brilliantly as well as the run for the disallowed McGinn goal against Burnley (which I still can't tell if he cleverly left it for him or if he scuffed the shot) and the header from Jack's cross against West Ham. He just wasn't making those runs at all let the start of the season so it's good to see that's being coached into him at least.

But I agree, we desperately need another option. I was hoping Kodjia could be it but it seems like he'll never get up and running due to injuries and lack of game time. January will be crucial because we have the same conundrum on the wings.

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Hes absolutely shit, you can see the rest of the players know it as well. Reminds me of Andre Green last season who isnt football league level yet fans were always deluding themselves he would come good and were basically making up attributes that werent there.

 

Edited by villanmac
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