Wesley Moraes

[useless]

Strange that our three players most likely to score Wesley, Hourihane and Kodjia, are the three players that people are either calling to be dropped or don't want anywhere near the side. We actually need to score goals to win games.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I can see you’re point. Trez didn’t look effective. All I said was I don’t think it’s the game to judge attacking players on.

but tell me when he has looked effective.....this game today, just highlights things.

when has he looked like many wingers in this division?

[VillanousOne]

Davis has had a few cameos where he looks ok without scoring goals but suddenly he is the answer? Bare in mind he's started in cup games and still not scored goals. I hope he gets more pitch time and scores goals but people are not being realistic.

Wes has blown hot and cold, but at least he's scored goals and in more or the same as some of the other big name striker signings in this league. 

Writing him off and calling him a donkey is laughable.
 

[villalad21]

So you expect Keinan to score every time he gets a 5-10 min cameo?

That's ridiculous.

[Keener window-cleaner]

1 hour ago, Thug said:

Davis Looks twice the player.

every time he comes on.

Yet when he starts he doesn't.

[VillanousOne]

5 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

So you expect Keinan to score every time he gets a 5-10 min cameo?

That's ridiculous.

I don't and i am not arguing against him starting/getting more game time, just not sure he will get the goals many think.

[KentVillan]

9 minutes ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

It's a bit of a scapegoat warning on Wesley imo.

As I posted in the post match thread I thought he looked really good in the first half, especially in the first 30 mins. He looked up for it, worked hard and won more battles than I've seen before. He was first on the ball and won the long ball duels quite a few times. Looked strong and a threat. As the game went on we were put under more and more pressure and he became more isolated up front, not much he could do. In the second he cut a frustrated figure at times, which is understandable as he was quite alone up front and didn't get much quality balls to work on. As expected he tired and was subbed at around 70 mins.

It's easy to say that Davies looked better, but it's not accurate imo. Coming on with fresh legs with 20 mins left playing against tiering players makes most players look lively. The game is often more open towards the end and you would expect anyone coming on to get a chance or two towards the end.

To compare the stats, Wesley over 70 mins had 21 touches, 15 passes and 80% passing accuracy. Davis over 20 mins had 8 touches, 4 passes and 75% passing accuracy. So nothing there suggests that Davis was better. He managed two shots where Wesley only had one, but considering the above that is not surprising. Had it been the other way around with a fresh Wesley coming in hunting the last 20 mins when the play goes more wild it would probably have been the same.

Imo Davis is not on the same level as Wesley. I'm happy to give Davis time and see him improve, but at the moment I'm happy with Wesley starting and Davis coming on. Apparently DS and the management team, who see both in training everyday, thinks the same and I fully trust their judgment. 

Careful, with all that reasonableness you'll be hounded out of here by the mob.

[Delphinho123]

11 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

Davis has had a few cameos where he looks ok without scoring goals but suddenly he is the answer? Bare in mind he's started in cup games and still not scored goals. I hope he gets more pitch time and scores goals but people are not being realistic.

Wes has blown hot and cold, but at least he's scored goals and in more or the same as some of the other big name striker signings in this league. 

Writing him off and calling him a donkey is laughable.
 

He’s blown hot once. The other 9 games he’s been f****** freezing.

[villalad21]

6 minutes ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

Yet when he starts he doesn't.

When did he start ? 

Oh you mean the cup games when he scored 1 in 2?

[VillanousOne]

2 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

He’s blown hot once. The other 9 games he’s been f****** freezing.

when was this once? Was he freezing against Norwich or Everton then?
 

[Delphinho123]

Just now, villalad21 said:

When did he start ? 

Oh you mean the cup games when he scored 1 in 2?

Don’t bother mate. The only argument the Wesley bandwagon has is that Davis isn’t prolific when the bloke hardly ever has a chance. 

Tbh, I’m not really arguing the Davis case as he probably isn’t the answer either. Wesley has just got to a level where he’s so poor I’m desperately hoping for an alternative.

Id genuinely be tempted to play McGinn up top next game. At least he’d hold the ball up with the super ass. 

[KentVillan]

8 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

So you expect Keinan to score every time he gets a 5-10 min cameo?

That's ridiculous.

Equally ridiculous to expect a man who has no real goalscoring record at any level to suddenly turn into a Premier League goal threat. He's 21, not 16.

[Delphinho123]

Just now, VillanousOne said:

when was this once? Was he freezing against Norwich or Everton then?
 

Was good against Everton and he played ok against a poor Norwich team.

You can defend him all you like but he’ll be replaced soon enough and you’ll remember what a good striker actually looks like

[privateer]

TBH, I'm amazed Smith keeps picking him. Surely he sees every day Wesley getting out muscled, dispossessed and nutmeged by the more mobile training cones?

[KentVillan]

Just now, Delphinho123 said:

Don’t bother mate. The only argument the Wesley bandwagon has is that Davis isn’t prolific when the bloke hardly ever has a chance. 

Tbh, I’m not really arguing the Davis case as he probably isn’t the answer either. Wesley has just got to a level where he’s so poor I’m desperately hoping for an alternative.

Id genuinely be tempted to play McGinn up top next game. At least he’d hold the ball up with the super ass. 

Lol, as if there is a **** Wesley bandwagon. Get real.

The only bandwagon is people tearing into Wesley every time he doesn't score. Most of us defending him here are also concerned about whether he's good enough, but we're just being realistic about whether dropping him for Keinan Davis is going to massively transform our fortunes.

[Delphinho123]

1 minute ago, KentVillan said:

Lol, as if there is a **** Wesley bandwagon. Get real.

The only bandwagon is people tearing into Wesley every time he doesn't score. Most of us defending him here are also concerned about whether he's good enough, but we're just being realistic about whether dropping him for Keinan Davis is going to massively transform our fortunes.

Fair.

Genuine question, what do you think his strengths are as a player? 

(I don’t think Davis is great btw, I’m just desperate!)

[privateer]

1 minute ago, KentVillan said:

The only bandwagon is people tearing into Wesley every time he doesn't score.

Which is just not true. He gets stick for his application, attitude and, to a slightly lesser extent, his actual ability.

[KenjiOgiwara]

28 minutes ago, useless said:

Strange that our three players most likely to score Wesley, Hourihane and Kodjia, are the three players that people are either calling to be dropped or don't want anywhere near the side. We actually need to score goals to win games.

[KentVillan]

Just now, Delphinho123 said:

Fair.

Genuine question, what do you think his strengths are as a player? 

(I don’t think Davis is great btw, I’m just desperate!)

I think his strengths are:

• He is usually very good at bringing down the long ball (today he wasn't so good, but most games he does this well)
• His passing accuracy is usually pretty good
• He doesn't rush anything
• He seems mentally very calm when he gets a chance
• He's a good finisher off his feet in a one-on-one situation
• When he's playing well, he tracks back well
• Despite the Norwich penalty, I think he's actually a decent penalty taker

Obviously he has some big weaknesses as well:

• Extremely slow
• Can't beat a man
• Very poor in the air for someone of his height
• Attitude problems when the game isn't going his way

These weaknesses are particularly noticeable when we play him as a traditional lone striker. When we play him as more of a False 9, his strengths become more obvious.

While Davis has a bit more explosive pace, and is better at beating a man, I think he lacks some of Wesley's link-up play abilities, and also lacks Wesley's calm finishing.

So that's my opinion on the two players. I'd be inclined to keep giving Davis chances (ideally a bit earlier in the game) but I think people are rushing to conclusions about both players.

[Keener window-cleaner]

8 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

When did he start ? 

Oh you mean the cup games when he scored 1 in 2?

Yes against against a league 2 team that we won 6-1 against and a Brighton side that had 7 academy players. And based on the pre season games and the starts the season before he was injured when he got 2 goals in 17 starts and 28 apps in the Championship.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want this to turn into me being against Davis, far from. I like him a lot. He has good target player skills, shows some impressive silky technique at times and seems to have a good attitude. He is young and will hopefully improve.

I just don't agree that he is twice the player Wesley is and that you and a couple of others are unfairly harsh on Wesley, and wrongfully uses Davis as an argument for having a go as Wesley.