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Wesley Moraes

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12 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Pace I am not sure about as he never actually runs any where. Static all game long. 

Good finisher, maybe. Not sold yet on that. But you're right that's probably the biggest asset he has atm. 

Bully defences? Hahaahahahaa. No. 

Strong? No not really. He seems weak and afraid of physical contact most of the time, which is why the idea of him bullying defences rather laughable. Based on his size, he must be strong, but he doesn't show it at all.

To be fair, he did bully the Everton defence. Not seen any hint of that since though.

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1 minute ago, Tom13 said:

What makes you think he'll be so good in two seasons time?

He’s young and he’s new to the league, I think he has a lot of potential, he has already shown that for us this season

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57 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Keinan is 2 years younger and everytime i watch him play i see a player with a bigger potential.

The problem is that Keinan looks like a superb all round striker, except for the critical ingredient: goals. He's too far into his career for this just to be something that he can add to his game. The stats don't lie. He doesn't score often enough to play lone striker.

Wesley is definitely a very frustrating player, but he's shown that he can dominate a game (Everton) and that he's relatively clinical when presented with a clear chance (except off headers, which is definitely an issue).

I'm by no means a massive Wesley fan, but I think people are showing a bit too much optimism about Keinan on the basis of a few half-decent showings against tired legs.

We are very prone to seeing benchwarmers as the answer to every problem on VT.

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7 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

If he keeps up that goal ratio until the end of the season, I’ll be ecstatic 

Correction: 4 goals in 10 games

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3 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

The problem is that Keinan looks like a superb all round striker, except for the critical ingredient: goals. He's too far into his career for this just to be something that he can add to his game. The stats don't lie. He doesn't score often enough to play lone striker.

So you are writing off a 21 year old?

Wasn't Kane 23 when he for real arrived at the scene?

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1 minute ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Lets be honest though. We signed a lot of players. Most of them have worked out. Mings and Engels have been superb. Guilbert has taken to the PL very well considering the fact he was signed for a championship club. Targett have shown to be a massive upgrade on Taylor. Heaton is ace. Marvelous has been exceptional. Luiz is coming along nicely.  Trez and El Ghazi are a bit hot and cold I guess. 

One signing had to be shit, and it's pretty clear who that is by now. Unfortunately for us it's a key one. 

I rate them both obviously but Mings and Engels have made at least 5 or 6 mistakes between them that have directly led to goals, but people seem to forgive them easily.

Today i blame the change in players and tactics as much as I blame him not having a bad game. But I think it's wrong that we rely so heavily on a young player who has never played in this league and at this level.

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5 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

The problem is that Keinan looks like a superb all round striker, except for the critical ingredient: goals. He's too far into his career for this just to be something that he can add to his game. The stats don't lie. He doesn't score often enough to play lone striker..

This is said a lot, but it's such a weird argument to use when he doesn't get a continued run in the team. If Davis had played the last 10 matches I seriously doubt he would have less goals than Wesley. Probably not a whole lot more either, but how can we know? Davis looked a LOT more likely to score today than Wesley that's for sure. 

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1 minute ago, villalad21 said:

So you are writing off a 21 year old?

Wasn't Kane 23 when he for real arrived at the scene?

No I'm not writing him off. But Harry Kane had 5 goals in 18 apps at Leyton Orient age 18, then 7 goals in 22 apps age 19 at Millwall.

Keinan has managed 2 league goals in 40+ appearances for us, and that included plenty of starts in the Championship in a team offering good service.

I've just never heard of a successful top-flight striker who has started their career with that kind of record. Of course it could happen, but my money is on Wesley having the better career, for all his faults.

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Just now, VillanousOne said:

I rate them both obviously but Mings and Engels have made at least 5 or 6 mistakes between them that have directly led to goals, but people seem to forgive them easily.

Today i blame the change in players and tactics as much as I blame him not having a bad game. But I think it's wrong that we rely so heavily on a young player who has never played in this league and at this level.

Every player we got will make mistake. We are a promoted team with a ton of new players. Mistakes will happen in abundance. Question is whether the performances outside that weigh up for it, and for Mings and Engels it definitely does. 

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1 minute ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

This is said a lot, but it's such a weird argument to use when he doesn't get a continued run in the team. If Davis had played the last 10 matches I seriously doubt he would have less goals than Wesley. Probably not a whole lot more either, but how can we know? Davis looked a LOT more likely to score today than Wesley that's for sure. 

My point is looking back to his run with us in the Championship (when he did get plenty of starts, and we had one of the best squads in the league). He just doesn't seem to score many goals at any level, whether that be youth, reserve, League Cup, etc. I don't think he's a natural goalscorer.

I do take your point that it's unfair to criticise him for his goal record this season.

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1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

You see I am not sure about that. What's the attributes you think that indicates he has a lot of potential? 

I fully believe all new players deserve patience, but what's his strengths?

He has a really weak shot, he isn't a hard worker, he doesn't harass defenders, he isn't very good at using his physique, he doesn't seem to win a lot of headers, he isn't very mobile, he isn't good at challenging defenders with the ball. 

So what is it he does really well? 

He got the benefit of the doubt after the first few matches, but he doesn'tseem to improve at all. And his attitude sucks. 

 

That’s where I’m at tbh.

The people saying he has a lot of potential can’t name one facet of his game that is half decent. 

He’s just a really poor player. It happens though. We got it wrong with him. I see no potential in him at all. 

Would loved to be proven wrong but he’s absolute garbage in a very decent team. 

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Yeah he didn't score a lot, but he was 18/19 years old. Grealish didn't exactly rock the league then either.  @ Kent. 

Edited by KenjiOgiwara

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Davis Looks twice the player.

every time he comes on.

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13 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

No I'm not writing him off. But Harry Kane had 5 goals in 18 apps at Leyton Orient age 18, then 7 goals in 22 apps age 19 at Millwall.

Keinan has managed 2 league goals in 40+ appearances for us, and that included plenty of starts in the Championship in a team offering good service.

I've just never heard of a successful top-flight striker who has started their career with that kind of record. Of course it could happen, but my money is on Wesley having the better career, for all his faults.

I think the proof of the pudding is in the eating....He may prove us wrong but so far, no evidence of it.

The leagues are littered with "what if" strikers all looking for better service.....loads of one season wonders.

Equally there are lots of attributes to look for.....If a striker hasn't got Physicality or a measure of it or fails to use it,or no pace, he really has a problem in trying to impose himself and talent will only take you so far.

Edited by TRO

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Well the matches Davis won't score he will at least give the CB's a beating. He will win headers, bring the team up and create space for others. **** if I know what Wesley does when he doesn't score tap ins. 

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5 minutes ago, Thug said:

Davis Looks twice the player.

every time he comes on.

twice the player, are you sure?

I never seen the game, but I would hazard a guess on past experience, marginally better.

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1 minute ago, TRO said:

twice the player, are you sure?

I never seen the game, but I would hazard a guess on past experience, marginally better.

So why isn’t he starting?

Wesley is an absolute donkey. Awful footballer who isn’t even likeable. 

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13 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

So why isn’t he starting?

Wesley is an absolute donkey. Awful footballer who isn’t even likeable. 

Its not a personality contest?

I guess its like many of our players better at some things and not others, both are young so inconsistency is an element.

The manager has a difficult job in balancing form and inconsistency......for me I think we have a number of players who are not good enough, enough of the time.

Edited by TRO

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Just now, TRO said:

Its not a personality contest?

It is when said player is throwing his arms around blaming the likes of McGinn when he can’t control the football. 

His attitude is only marginally better than his ability. And he has zero ability. 

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Unfortunately I feeling Deano will put his pride into this Wesley transfer and refuse to admit he got it wrong. 

I just hope we sign a striker in January. 

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