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Wesley Moraes

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That's probably because McGinn is a midfielder. And McGinn can shoot. 

Ultimately it comes down to how you define a shot. I honestly can't remember a single shot from Wesley that ended up in goal. So how they count 4 I will never know.  Unless every finish with your boot qualifies, then yes ofc. 

Edited by KenjiOgiwara

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He's a big guy who's not particularly great in the air, can hold it up ok if you get it to his feet and isn't very quick.

So it's up to him to get into positions where he can finish a chance (which evidently he can tuck chances away).  

It's also up to the wider team, to give him those chances, which we didn't see a lot of on Saturday. 

I think the problem we have, is when opponents score at VP, they sit deep, which hinders our wingers ability to get crosses in, reducing his effectiveness.  He didn't do anything against Brighton that he didn't do against Norwich, in fact I'd argue he worked harder when we lost the ball, putting pressure on their defenders than he did against Norwich.  The difference is that Norwich played a higher line because we went ahead, meaning our wingers were more effective and he got his chances through wide play.  I don't think El Ghazi had his best game Sat, so we lost a bit of chance creation.  He still made his presence known, but as has been pointed out, Brighton's defence are big, so they could give some back. 

So I think his successes and failures kind of mirror how the team play.  If we're disjointed, no real tempo, not getting it wide, then I think he won't have as much affect on the game. 

Davis is much more willing to run into channels and be more physical than Wesley, when the team aren't up to much, Davis is more likely to carve something out of a lump into the box.

But Davis hasn't shown much in the way of finishing.

We're crying out for someone like Maupay, who will run channels, is quick, nimble and good with the ball at their feet.  We'll address than in January I imagine.  It'll give us a whole new way of playing. 

As for Wes, I think he's doing fine.  He'll get better as time goes on.  I think it's a bonus at this point that he's got 4 goals.  If he can finish the season with 10, I'll be pleased with that. 

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He's very good at attacking the front post, which is especially useful for us as we play with over-lapping FBs. Whenever he attacks that post, it opens up space centrally for Hou/Mcguinn which is great because those boys can finish. 

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3 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

FPL tracks shots and has deemed that he has taken 19 shots and scored 4 goals. Conversely mcginn has taken 30 shots and scored 3 goals but I don't see anyone jumping on his back about poor finishing. 

I’ve not seen much criticism of his finishing. 4 in 9 is a decent return but for me it masks the real problem

He just seems extremely ponderous and slow - he shows no sign that he can beat a man nor that he can conjure up an opportunity for himself. Davis knocked a Brighton defender off the ball, took it past another and hit a quick shot which forced a good save out of the keeper - Wesley shows no signs yet of having that in his locker

He tries hard enough and no doubt can improve as he gets more accustomed to the league, but I fear he will not get better quickly enough nor get to the level required 

Im not using him as a scapegoat but CF is arguably the most crucial position in a team and at the moment it is our weakest link

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If you ignore strikers from the usual 'top 6' (as they would be expected to score many more goals), and look at the best of the rest...

Pukki (Norwich) - 6 goals, 2 assist

Vardy (Leic) - 6 goals, 1 assist

Wilson (B'mouth) - 5 goals, 0 assists

Wesley (Villa), Haller (West Ham), Ings (S'oton) - 4 goals, 1 assist

Barnes (Burnley), Wood (Burnley) - 4 goals, 1 assist.

 

Wesley is doing fine compared to the rest.

Edited by ender4
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3 hours ago, carewjust4u said:

He's very good at attacking the front post, which is especially useful for us as we play with over-lapping FBs. Whenever he attacks that post, it opens up space centrally for Hou/Mcguinn which is great because those boys can finish. 

He's really improved in this area in the past few games. First few games he just wasn't making those runs, but now he's looking dangerous and he's already scored 2 goals this season making that run. There was a chance in the first half where Guilbert whipped a ball in. Wesley's movement was perfect, but the ball was just a little too close to the keeper. In the first few weeks of the season, he wasn't even making that run. 

That's what I like about him. He's clearly working on the weaker aspects of his game along with the coaching staff. It's something that Brugge fans were saying to us when he joined. He has a lot of rough edges but he's willing to put in the work to smooth them out. Considering he only started playing football at 16/17, I'd say he's making very swift progress.

Edited by Keyblade
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30 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

He's really improved in this area in the past few games. First few games he just wasn't making those runs, but now he's looking dangerous and he's already scored 2 goals this season making that run. There was a chance in the first half where Guilbert whipped a ball in. Wesley's movement was perfect, but the ball was just a little too close to the keeper. In the first few weeks of the season, he wasn't even making that run. 

That's what I like about him. He's clearly working on the weaker aspects of his game along with the coaching staff. It's something that Brugge fans were saying to us when he joined. He has a lot of rough edges but he's willing to put in the work to smooth them out. Considering he only started playing football at 16/17, I'd say he's making very swift progress.

100% mate, he's got a brilliant attitude and show he has the capacity to learn/adapt his game. His influence on the forward line is only going to grow, I just hope the more impatient parts of our fanbase give him time.

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3 hours ago, carewjust4u said:

He's very good at attacking the front post, which is especially useful for us as we play with over-lapping FBs. Whenever he attacks that post, it opens up space centrally for Hou/Mcguinn which is great because those boys can finish. 

Yep, made the run to the near post that freed up Hourihane and El Ghazi for that double chance in the 2nd half versus Brighton.  Did the same thing for Mcginn's goal that VAR took away versus Burnley.  ~20 million doesnt buy you a complete footballer.  Wesley's has flaws no doubt.  I think his biggest sin though is his flaws are the type you wouldn't normally attribute to a footballer of his size.  I think if instead of the 3 one time finish goals he had 3 powerful headers and a thundercunt strike from outside the box there would be less complaining about Wesley's play.  

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5 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

Literally scored over 20% of his shots. Against Brighton he had 2 shots 1 which was on the turn and was a at a shit angle the other I don't remember. 

For me he will be our most important player vs City. Considering they will probably play fernandinho and rodri at the back. He needs to be strong and physical and make them regret playing two smaller and weak midfielders at centre half. 

The shot on the turn second half was a bit of a scuff from rough memory? Lovely turn though, that's exactly what he hasn't done enough of for me.

Scored 20% and scuffed 80%. That's not far off 90% as I said ;) His general technique is poor is what I'm saying. McGinn is out of his league when it comes to shooting.

I'd actually drop him for City funnily enough. When he's had his off days so far, he doesn't win a single ball or hold anything up. Keinan is better at that right now I think.

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The thing about Wesley is that he is a big lump who moves awkwardly, and that perhaps makes him look less effective as a footballer.

On Saturday, he was involved in the build up to Hourihane's disallowed goal, and he was involved in the build up to Grealish's goal. He tracked back well, and he put in a decent shift pressing and making runs. I don't really remember him having any obvious scoring chances (when their keeper fumbles the ball, if you watch the replay, Wesley has an impossible angle, and I think he's actually trying to cut the ball back).

He's also very composed in and around the box. It's one of the most important skills to have as a striker.

I doubt he'll be the player who takes us to a Champions League final - he just doesn't look like he has the ability to unlock a good defence. But reckon he'll be a solid performer for us over the next couple of years, maybe longer. Target man / false 9 is a more complicated role than an out-and-out striker, so he should keep improving as he gets a better feel for how to disrupt defences and link up with the players around him.

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3 hours ago, ender4 said:

If you ignore strikers from the usual 'top 6' (as they would be expected to score many more goals), and look at the best of the rest...

Pukki (Norwich) - 6 goals, 2 assist

Vardy (Leic) - 6 goals, 1 assist

Wilson (B'mouth) - 5 goals, 0 assists

Wesley (Villa), Haller (West Ham), Ings (S'oton) - 4 goals, 1 assist

Barnes (Burnley), Wood (Burnley) - 4 goals, 1 assist.

 

Wesley is doing fine compared to the rest.

Yes I think he's not doing to bad and because goals are coming from everywhere we can afford to be more patient with him. I think there is less pressure on him because of goals in other areas and that will help Wesley.

I still think it would be wise to spend big on a quality striker, one Wes could learn from, two if that striker upped his value we could move him on after Wes has hopefully learned from him. Then we go buy someone again like Wesley's rating, repeat the process over and over with Wesley teaching the other guy. It's a business right there that should of been happening but we've yet to nail down properly for two decades.

Hopefully this is what we are aiming for all while keeping our best and when the time comes see them move on because clubs wanted our players because they were ace and sold for profit. Main thing is if we do that business model we always have to make sure the right guy comes in to replace. From what I've seen of our new regime they have got most of our signings right apart from let's say kalanic but that's very good because a few bad apples out of a whole tree is fantastic.

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At last some thoughtful and positive comments.

Basically a young lad, burdensome price tag in a foreign country, biggest league in the world, leading our attack single handedly in a newly assembled and new to the division team. Basically 1 in 2 is doing ok for me. Keep it up Wes.

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I think his role on Saturday has been underrated somewhat. The challenge for the ball which lead to the first 'goal' was fair and crucial in the build up, he took the keeper out of the game. It's ideal when your aim is to kick the ball into the net that the only man who can use his hands to stop it is out of position. Then he didn't panic and try to play an impossible through ball in the build up to the actual first goal, he calmed himself and picked the right option in Guilbert.

I'm also reminded of his brace one game previous, as well as the run he made which opened up Norwich's defence like Moses for Grealish's goal. So for as much as Davis might have a bit more about him in terms of beating a man, Wesley actually produces stuff. 

There are heavy flaws to his game, ironically one of them being his first touch. But there's more than enough there for me to want to persist with him. We were told he's raw, which suggests room/hope for improvement. 

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24 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I think his role on Saturday has been underrated somewhat. The challenge for the ball which lead to the first 'goal' was fair and crucial in the build up, he took the keeper out of the game. It's ideal when your aim is to kick the ball into the net that the only man who can use his hands to stop it is out of position. Then he didn't panic and try to play an impossible through ball in the build up to the actual first goal, he calmed himself and picked the right option in Guilbert.

I'm also reminded of his brace one game previous, as well as the run he made which opened up Norwich's defence like Moses for Grealish's goal. So for as much as Davis might have a bit more about him in terms of beating a man, Wesley actually produces stuff. 

There are heavy flaws to his game, ironically one of them being his first touch. But there's more than enough there for me to want to persist with him. We were told he's raw, which suggests room/hope for improvement. 

Agree but I think it’s fair to say Davis has shown glimpses as well when he gets a chance. It was a cracking bit of a play when he nearly scored. 
 

Id like to see him get a few more minutes.

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45 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I'm also reminded of his brace one game previous, as well as the run he made which opened up Norwich's defence like Moses for Grealish's goal. So for as much as Davis might have a bit more about him in terms of beating a man, Wesley actually produces stuff. 

I agree - I think DS has it about right, that Davis deserves minutes, but Wesley is first choice. Davis doesn't have all of Wesley's intelligent link up play around the box, he's a more old fashioned target man.

The thing a lot of people have missed about Wesley is that so far this season he has mostly had a bad deal from the referees - either obvious foul play by a defender going unpunished, or being blown for non-fouls where he has just muscled someone off the ball.

As he calms down his verbals and stroppy body language (I think we've seen that already btw) and as referees get used to watching him play, I suspect he'll start getting a better deal.

I would hazard a guess that you can tell how well Wesley is going to play by the first decision he gets from a referee. When it's in his favour, he seems to grow into the game and the defenders back off him a bit. If it goes against him, he gets frustrated, and the defenders start to chip away at him. Against Brighton he got a very bad shout from the referee early on, and his day didn't get any better with that VAR decision.

I think what would really win the fans over is Wesley scoring a "proper" centre forward goal - a turn, drive and hit, or a bullet header, or a curler from outside the box. The Everton goal was probably his best finish. The other three have been close range finishes.

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2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Agree but I think it’s fair to say Davis has shown glimpses as well when he gets a chance. It was a cracking bit of a play when he nearly scored. 
 

Id like to see him get a few more minutes.

I agree it was a cracking bit of play and I like the impact Davis has been bringing, but it's always 'nearly' when it comes to production. Whereas Wesley is actually doing it. 

He's really not doing all that badly. I want him to be better, I hope he can get better, but I'm not down on him like some. 

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Wesley has the right attitude to learning his role.... 

.... And we have the right manager and coaches to teach. 

He'll be very good for us by seasons end. 

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I think people are being way too harsh. The lad is clinical, links up well and can hold it up well. He needs work but he started late and is only 22 so that's to be expected.  

I think the fact our Wingers (Grealish isn't a winger) have been poor  makes it harder for him. El Ghazi has been very inconsistent, Treguet is lacking end product, and jota disappeared after the Everton game.

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8 hours ago, Philosopher said:

I think people are being way too harsh. The lad is clinical, links up well and can hold it up well. He needs work but he started late and is only 22 so that's to be expected.  

I think the fact our Wingers (Grealish isn't a winger) have been poor  makes it harder for him. El Ghazi has been very inconsistent, Treguet is lacking end product, and jota disappeared after the Everton game.

I agree, but to be fair to Jota - he has had an operation on a hernia in his groin since Everton.

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