Wesley Moraes

[picicata]

18 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-wesley-compares-aston-villa-17387893

 

Note that all those players came into an established Premier League team with some top players as well.

The likes of Angel were slaughtered as well.

But yes I know "But with those, you could see that they had kicked a ball before, Wesley can't trap a ball, pass, head, tie his shoelaces or shit in a bucket" etc.

Just saying though.

In each and every one of those players though you could see some key attributes that if we could unlock them the they would go on to be good players for us. Wes has no particular skill that stands out, we have to hope that our coaching staff can work some miracles with this kid.

[AVTuco]

Could we play without a striker?

Just stick Hourihane out there to stand around until Jack gets us a freekick.

[dubbs]

19 minutes ago, picicata said:

In each and every one of those players though you could see some key attributes that if we could unlock them the they would go on to be good players for us. Wes has no particular skill that stands out, we have to hope that our coaching staff can work some miracles with this kid.

The coaching staff must have seen something they could work with before he signed.   They just need to keep working with him.   Still need to sign a striker in January though. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by dubbs

[villalad21]

1 minute ago, dubbs said:

They just need to keep working with him. 

Then they should start working with the basics. Because he can't even do the basics right at the moment.

[VillaCas]

2 minutes ago, dubbs said:

The coaching staff must have seen something they could work with before he signed.   They just need to keep working with him.   Still need to sign a striker in January though. 

It’s probable that the coaching staff knew little about him until he turned up. He was a Suso signing, who I guess got him from one of his scouts. DS would probably have seen a game or two but that would have been Belgian League matches. 

I think Smith probably wanted Maupay but has been stuck with him and is under instructions to play him to ‘protect the investment’

We need to write off £22m and start again - this bloke will never make a PL CF

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

9 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

It’s probable that the coaching staff knew little about him until he turned up. He was a Suso signing, who I guess got him from one of his scouts. DS would probably have seen a game or two but that would have been Belgian League matches. 

I think Smith probably wanted Maupay but has been stuck with him and is under instructions to play him to ‘protect the investment’

We need to write off £22m and start again - this bloke will never make a PL CF

Isn't staying in the Premier League, the biggest "Investment"?

That's tin foil hat stuff right there.

So i'm just gonna go with he thinks he needs time and will come good, or doesn;t think he has anyone else to replace him with currently.

Which makes mores sense.

Edited December 9, 2019 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[kiltorken]

To be fair to him he was arguably man of the match in two of our 4 wins this season against Everton and Norwich, granted he was the worst player on the pitch for most other games. 

 

[MotoMkali]

3 hours ago, tomav84 said:

it's amazing how differently some see the game. i disagree wholeheartedly on the hold up play. in fact i'd say that to be one of his weaker attributes

I'd say think of it like this. Imagine if from an opponents long pass the ball was going to land at mings' feet with the striker standing over by our other centre back. In this scenario do you expect the striker to win the ball or would you expect mings to easily clear it as he should have plenty of time to get in a good position as the striker tries to get even remotely close to the ball.

Personally I think mings should clear over 90% of the time and that is thing. People on villa talk seem to think he should be losing the ball 50+% of the time. If mings lost the ball in this scenario it would be his fault and you wouldn't necessarily say the striker had done a great job because it is more likely mings had made a mistake with his positioning. 

If you look at it from the strikers perspective even getting a header on the ball is a win even if it goes nowhere. It isn't Wesley's fault he is getting poor long balls but when he does get the ball to feet or even a long ball played to him where he has already sealed of the defender he wins it the majority of the time which is what we should be looking at rather than blaming him for not winning the ball against a better positioned Premier league defender. 

[Laughable Chimp]

21 minutes ago, kiltorken said:

To be fair to him he was arguably man of the match in two of our 4 wins this season against Everton and Norwich, granted he was the worst player on the pitch for most other games. 

 

I missed the Everton game unfortunately, but was he really that good or was it a case of him being generally crap so when he finally had a good game everyone jumped at the opportunity to say look at how amazing he showed he could be.

Thing with the Norwich game is, it wasn't a flawless performance either. I remember being excited watching him play for us in that first half to complete a hatrick in the second but he didn't have a single shot on goal in the second half, so really it was more a great first half performance than a great whole performance. Secondly, his two goals were undoubtedly gifted to him. Not to say he didn't do anything, of course, but neither were exactly difficult to score. It was a tap in from close range and a mistake from the Norwich defended that left him on the 6 yard box with only the keeper to beat. Look, I get the argument that a goal is a goal, but if he's only been scoring because of the incompetency of the defence and our other players putting it up on a plate for him, did he really play that well? Did Wesley actually do anything seriously great in that first half? Now consider he also had a medicore penalty that was saved. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Laughable Chimp

[Keyblade]

5 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

I missed the Everton game unfortunately, but was he really that good or was it a case of him being generally crap so when he finally had a good game everyone jumped at the opportunity to say look at how amazing he showed he could be.

He was superb against Everton, he honestly was. Benteke would have been proud of that performance. It's the only reason I still have some faint hope he'll eventually come good. He absolutely dominated that game and the 2 Everton CBs that night.

[MotoMkali]

3 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

I missed the Everton game unfortunately, but was he really that good or was it a case of him being generally crap so when he finally had a good game everyone jumped at the opportunity to say look at how amazing he showed he could be.

Thing with the Norwich game is, it wasn't a flawless performance either. I remember being excited watching him play for us in that first half to complete a hatrick in the second but he didn't have a single shot on goal in the second half, so really it was more a great first half performance than a great whole performance. Secondly, his two goals were undoubtedly gifted to him. Not to say he didn't do anything, of course, but neither were exactly difficult to score. It was a tap in from close range and a mistake from the Norwich defended that left him on the 6 yard box with only the keeper to beat. Look, I get the argument that a goal is a goal, but if he's only been scoring because of the incompetency of the defence and our other players putting it up on a plate for him, did he really play that well? Especially when you consider he also had a medicore penalty that was saved.

Nah in that game he shat all over mina and kean. Single handedly created our 2nd goal and they really struggled to deal with him. Also him and mina nearly got in a fight which I think got him fired up.

Against Norwich whilst he did miss the penalty (which definitely wasn't great) he contributed quite a lot to our attack through his hold up play and passing. Took the ball down well with a good turn and finish for his first goal.

He does need to improve his movement which were at their best in these 2 games but the rest of the teams movement was also at the best in the Norwich game. I think that is the key though everyone needs to help each other because right now it looks like a team of individuals with wesley being a bounce passer for Jack when he has the ball. No one tries to take the game by the scruff of the neck except for Jack and the rest of the team need to at least grab the arms and help. 

[Pelle]

It's quite funny. No, it's quite sad. Actually it's kind of pathetic that after we're beaten 4-1 at our home ground the most growing thread is the thread about our striker. And we played against the best defence in the league. Some say that if we'd had Tammy we'd be 6 now. I say that we score enough to be 6th but we concede far too many goals. Our attack is quite decent and he's a part of the attack.

What's his attributes? Well, he's rather stromng and keeps the defenders occuoied making space for the other players for one. He's quite good at finding a pass at one touch (No, I don't mean that the times he can't control the ball is passes. I actually agree with the criticism that he's bad at trapping the ball is poor). It's not often it opens up the defence, but it gets the attack rolling on. That's another. He's far from great. But seriously, he's part of the one thing we're good at, attacking and scoring goals. It's not despite we have him, it's not because we have him, but he's a part of it. We wouldn't be scoring that many goals if he was half as bad asome on here claim. We simply wouldn't. If we were then the rest of the players would be almost world class and only one of them comes close to be that. He's playing his part in what makes us going. That's his main task.

What he's not a main part of is the defence. And there are only 4 teams who've conceded more goals than we have, and two others that have conceded as many. We're joint 5th in shipping goals, or joint 13th if you like. This is where our main issues are. Not scoring goals, but conceding them.

Smith is most likely more concerned about how we do than us fans. He's a fan himself and he's got one try at what is probably his dream job. Believe me, he wants success more than any of us do. And he knows better than any of us how to get it. Will he get it? We'll see, but it won't be for being stubborn and not seeing what we can see. And definetely not at this stage. The odds are on him, not us in here.

Someone mentioed that he had a chance to shoot against leicester but opted for the pass to Elmo and it all went to nothing. In my book a legimit thing to chriticise, but that's what bad confidence can do. If you're low on confidence you don't dare to do anything on your own. You fear making mistakes. You hardly dare to do anything yourself. Better to pass so you're not the one who loses the ball. I'm not saying that he's defenitely low on confidence, but if I was to bet I'd bet on that.

I too want another striker in January, but I'm far from giving up hope on Wesley. Not after 16 games, And especially not after a run where we've played against manure, liverppol, citeh, chelski and leicester. 4 yaers ago I'd never thought I'd add leicester to those teams. And that manure would actually be by far the worst of them.

With suggestions like McGinn and Engels up top as that wouldn't be worse, I really hope that I'll never see you complain about a manager playing players out of position, but I'm quite sure you already have.

And for the last, where did you all expect us to be by now? Top 10? Top 6? Top 4? We're about where we should expect us to be this season.

[YLN]

This thread is absolutely ridiculous. You're all basically just stanning how you are the poster who thinks welsey is the most rubbish and it's just snowballing as you try to outdo each other until your arguments bare no resemblance to what you've actually seen the player do.

The suggestion that Wesley has no discernible talent and we would be better off playing a non striker up front is not even worth discussing. I don't even know what he has done so wrong. He looked pretty good in most of the games I've seen him. He has missed a  couple of chances, but playing on his own up top against the top 6 established premier league teams in his first season in English football, he had been holding his own. Let's see how he does against the teams at or around our level before writing him off. Price tag is weighing heavy as well in people's assessment of him.

[ozvillafan]

In the games he played very well (Everton and Norwich) we played to his strengths: Balls to feet.

Jota is our best winger for this, as the delivery from the other 2 into the box is a little erratic. Apart from Grealish, I think only Hourihane has been delivering for Wes from our midfield.

Both Jota and Hourihane feature rarely and judging from our last 2 games, the opposition is double-teaming Grealish the same way they used to with Ashley Young: They know most of our good stuff goes through him so stopping him effectively stops us.

The amount of times we lump the ball up to Wes seems to be increasing, not decreasing. He's a big unit - but he's not a target man.

That said, Wes needs to do more. There isn't a striker in the league that doesn't feed off scraps at times.

[Dr_Pangloss]

When you see posters recommending McGinn or even Engels up front you just know that they are full of shit and know absolutely **** all about football. Sure, Wesley deserves criticism, it's more than valid to point out his weaknesses, but to propose that one of our best centre halves replaces him up front, well that's just about the thickest opinion I've ever read on this forum.

[villalad21]

3 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

When you see posters recommending McGinn or even Engels up front you just know that they are full of shit and know absolutely **** all about football. Sure, Wesley deserves criticism, it's more than valid to point out his weaknesses, but to propose that one of our best centre halves replaces him up front, well that's just about the thickest opinion I've ever read on this forum.

The point is Wes is doing so little at the moment that i don't think Engels would do much worse up front.

That being said. No one is suggesting to play Engels up front. Speaking for myself i'd give Kodjia a chance, he's never started a game this season. But i'm also ok with either Anwar or Trez playing up front.

[tomav84]

15 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

I'd say think of it like this. Imagine if from an opponents long pass the ball was going to land at mings' feet with the striker standing over by our other centre back. In this scenario do you expect the striker to win the ball or would you expect mings to easily clear it as he should have plenty of time to get in a good position as the striker tries to get even remotely close to the ball.

Personally I think mings should clear over 90% of the time and that is thing. People on villa talk seem to think he should be losing the ball 50+% of the time. If mings lost the ball in this scenario it would be his fault and you wouldn't necessarily say the striker had done a great job because it is more likely mings had made a mistake with his positioning. 

If you look at it from the strikers perspective even getting a header on the ball is a win even if it goes nowhere. It isn't Wesley's fault he is getting poor long balls but when he does get the ball to feet or even a long ball played to him where he has already sealed of the defender he wins it the majority of the time which is what we should be looking at rather than blaming him for not winning the ball against a better positioned Premier league defender. 

obviously if the ball never went anywhere near him then he can't 'lose' it. i'm referring to the numerous times he's had the ball, and lost it

[wilko154]

The perspective of some of our fans is honestly baffling.

We've played some of the best sides in England, possibly Europe, and our new 21 year old striker hasn't had the best of games.

He's literally played against some of the best defences in the league and our fans are battering him for not performing, not winning every ball, not scoring goals.

We've created nothing for him, we've not got players close to him to help with the burden and we've constantly thrown long balls to a player who isn't a target man.

I really really hope he pulls out some performances over the next few weeks and shoves the words back down some of our fans throats. 

[Tumblerseven]

He looks pretty good in games? Sorry i disagree i think the guy is a lazy joke.

1. One of our playing style aspects is crossing often. Our big striker doesnt even atempt to head anything.

2. Leicester game hes panicking on the ball that leads to goal. That panick not the first game i mind you.

3.Chelsea game he battled for ball got tired real quickly than jumped in the air and fall with all his weight to the ground. Almost got really injured i thought his hip is  injured for the moment.Hes a liability! It looked so funny referee didint even look twice and didint give the faul.

4.Always frustrated or his body language says hes frustrated.  Flaping arms is not his job! And yah it can affect teamates!!!!

5.Hes to slow to make runs bettwen defenders so that playing aspect is out of the plans. Kennan davis do that better than this guy. Hogan did that pretty good.

6. Hes failling to battle or fight for the ball with his strenght and his weight because his giving up to early. He fakes that he got injured or fouled and when lying on the ground asks for fouls. Of course he dont get it because hes faking it and everyone see it.

This is not selected incidents to show him hes a bad boy or a bad player this is his playing style he doying this every game.

 

Edited December 10, 2019 by Tumblerseven

[villalad21]

23 minutes ago, wilko154 said:

and our new 21 year old striker hasn't had the best of games.

23 years old