Wesley Moraes

[Vive_La_Villa]

3 hours ago, villalad21 said:

Keinan is 2 years younger and look more promising.

He’s actually closer to one year older and I do think he has looked good when he has come on. I would like to see him start. If it doesn’t work out we can all get behind Wesley again. If it does work out the team hopefully benefits.  

[VillanousOne]

I think it boils down to a mixture of things, I personally think Wes has show enough attributes to convince me he has a future with us, mainly because he's scored 4 goals and got an assist.

I agree sometimes he has spent too long in each game moaning and falling over under any kind of contact, he clearly isn't used to the physicality of the premiership yet and I can see how many getting annoyed by his attitude, but I don't think he doesn't care and I do think he works harder than people give him credit for.

My main issue is I don't think he was every ready to come in and play the lone striker role from the start, it is clear he has a lot to learn and development still ahead of him.

Dean has a put a lot of faith in Wes and is going with a total immersion 'sink of swim' tactic, this might eventually pay off but even if it does it will mean a lot of frustrating performances and annoyed fans.

Having no Kodjia available is another huge issue, I know a lot of the same people calling Wes a donkey think the same about Kodjia but he is the most natural goal scorer we have right now.

Davis deserves more pitch time and has shown huge promise, but we don't yet know if he will do any better if given 90 mins.

I find it strange that RHM was loaned out he is a fast and direct striker who in theory could work alongside someone like Wes, you'd think Hogan could also play that role, but again Hogan had lost all confidence and form long before he was loaned to Stoke and RHM hasn't really lived up to his promise either.

We needed to buy a second striker in the summer and by all accounts it looks like we tried really hard, but it didn't happen. So we need to sign another striker in January. But until then it seems logical to stick with Wes but give Keinan more game time, not just pointless cameos where he can't do much.

Also a huge factor is Dean doesn't know what his best midfield/wingers are yet and when you have a lone striker who is out of his depth, not knowing who you are meant to be playing the ball through to or flicking onto, or where the crosses will come from is an issue. 

Connor and El Ghazi like them rate them or hate them, create assists and score goals, taking them off vs City was the wrong move. I like Trez but he was a headless chicken, Luiz did ok but for some reason his involvement seemed to have a knock on impact on McGinn and even Nakamba as neither were at their best, nor was Grealish but that may have been a coincidence.

Either way vs Liverpool we need El Ghazi and Connor back on the pitch. 
 

[Jimzk5]

He's just so bizarre, can ghost into positons unmarked and score, play the ball to him in space outside the box it's like he's made of glass and goes down under any contact.

 

[KenjiOgiwara]

2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

He’s actually closer to one year older and I do think he has looked good when he has come on. I would like to see him start. If it doesn’t work out we can all get behind Wesley again. If it does work out the team hopefully benefits.  

Surely the age of players are defined by the year they are born? 

[Vive_La_Villa]

5 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Surely the age of players are defined by the year they are born? 

Probably.

But if player 1 is born 31st December 2000 and player 2 is born 1st Jan 2001.

Is player 1 a year older?

[KenjiOgiwara]

In terms of player development, yes

[The Fun Factory]

1 minute ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

In terms of player development, yes

I think I read somewhere that it is a much higher proportion of sports players who become professional who's birth dates are early in the academic year such as September/October rather than June/July. Sorry not really about Big Wes but just popped into my mind.

[mikeyp102]

19 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

In terms of player development, yes

Eh? Why? 

[KenjiOgiwara]

Because from my experience, while they might be born 3 days apart, they are born in different years. Thus they will be exposed to different quality of sports and school for that matter at different stages. 

That's just my personal experience of it. Maybe it works differently in England than in Scandinavia. 

Either way it's safe to say a player's age will be determined from the year he was born. So it's normal to say Davis is 2 years younger than Wesley. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

11 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Because from my experience, while they might be born 3 days apart, they are born in different years. Thus they will be exposed to different quality of sports and school for that matter at different stages. 

That's just my personal experience of it. Maybe it works differently in England than in Scandinavia. 

Either way it's safe to say a player's age will be determined from the year he was born. So it's normal to say Davis is 2 years younger than Wesley. 

I see where you’re coming from but in England the cut off date is 1st September.  At a young age August babies can be a little bit behind in development. 

So in my earlier example it would be valid if the birthday was end of August / Early September. So fair point.

edit: but if both Wes and Davis were education in England they’d only be one school year apart

Edited October 27, 2019 by Vive_La_Villa

[Keener window-cleaner]

I'm not fully convinced yet that he is our answer up top, but I've seen enough of him to think he has every chance of being that. Most importantly I've seen improvements from game to game. The first two games I was a bit worried, he fell over to easy, didn't seem to cope with the physicality despite his frame, seemed to be second to the ball and didn't do enough penetrating runs or running into positions where he would score. If you look at his last games he is winning much more battles, makes more direct runs, wins more headers and simply improves on every point. I still expect more of him but I'm glad he is improving.

As said you must take into consideration that he is new to the country, only 22 and new to the Premier League, he is also put under much pressure with quite a big price tag and our more or less only striker that we rely on. Some players take a whole season until they adapt, some never do, many needs at least half a season. To score 4 goals and have 1 assist already is actually quite good, although the overall performance for me is more important than the goals. Compare him to Joelinton and Haller and he is doing fine.

Over the last pages I have read some utter crap about him. That he can't run, can't control the ball, don't win anything in the air, can't head the ball, can't run with the ball, is weak, don't have any technique etc. I just don't understand why we Villa fans want to be so harsh and disrespectful to our players.

Look at some of the goals he scored last season and look at this clip that was posted earlier in this thread. I don't think anyone is fully pleased with how he is performing and want to see more, but there should be some reason and fairness to what is said about him.

 

[KenjiOgiwara]

17 minutes ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

Over the last pages I have read some utter crap about him. That he can't run, can't control the ball, don't win anything in the air, can't head the ball, can't run with the ball, is weak, don't have any technique etc. I just don't understand why we Villa fans want to be so harsh and disrespectful to our players.

Some of that are true to an extent though.  It's clear he isn't very strong in the air for his size, nor does he have a good shot. He doesn't excell at challenging defenders with the ball in his feet either. And he's not especially mobile, at least after his head drops. So saying he can't run is uncalled for, but the rest of it is pretty accurate. 

He seems to have good passing (and composure I guess) though,  I'd give him that. Unfortunately it's not key asset for a lone striker in the PL. 

Edited October 27, 2019 by KenjiOgiwara

[Keener window-cleaner]

7 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Some of that are true to an extent though.  It's clear he isn't very strong in the air for his size, nor does he have a good shot. He doesn't excell at challenging defenders with the ball in his feet either. And he's not especially mobile, at least after his head drops. So saying he can't run is uncalled for, but the rest of it is pretty accurate. 

He seems to have good passing (and composure I guess) though,  I'd give him that. Unfortunately it's not key asset for a lone striker in the PL. 

I agree with much of that, but think he can improve, in glimpses he has shown he can be good in the air and shoot as well. Zlatan to take one example developed his shooting and heading skills first when he was at Juventus. 

[skarroki]

4 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Surely the age of players are defined by the year they are born? 

I'd normally define a footballer's age by the day they were born, similar to how it works with people of other professions?

[KenjiOgiwara]

5 minutes ago, skarroki said:

I'd normally define a footballer's age by the day they were born, similar to how it works with people of other professions?

So when someone is born in 1970 you don't just do quick math, you actually ask for the date of birth? Ok. 

[VillaCas]

8 hours ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

Over the last pages I have read some utter crap about him. That he can't run, can't control the ball, don't win anything in the air, can't head the ball, can't run with the ball, is weak, don't have any technique etc. I just don't understand why we Villa fans want to be so harsh and disrespectful to our players.

Look at some of the goals he scored last season and look at this clip that was posted earlier in this thread. I don't think anyone is fully pleased with how he is performing and want to see more, but there should be some reason and fairness to what is said about him.

 

I know this video is supposed to calm the criticism but for me it’s doing the opposite -

On the plus side, finishing (although not particularly difficult) is fine and some of the hold up play and passing is decent but worryingly shooting and heading are very very weak, movements look laboured and one-on-ones are very uninspiring. 

I hope I’m wrong but I’m just not seeing the “potential”

 

[Philosopher]

Is a clever player, still hasn't come to terms with the mentality and physicality of the English game. Clever finisher, with clever link up play.

This a learning season for him. We as fans need to understand that. He hasn't been helped though with us basically putting all our eggs in his basket. Next season though we will have a monster so long as we stick with him.

[tomav84]

city away, like spurs, are games you cannot really judge him on. he has improved since that burnley game, that's for sure. the problem is that i dont see davis as the answer, as at least wesley knows where the back of the net is

[wilko154]

Let's be clear here, we were playing Manchester City away. As poor as Wesley was in the game, he was playing against one of the best teams in the world and we barely created any chances for him during the 90 minutes.

I can accept he blows hot and cold, it's infuriating but it was to be expected. New country, new club, 23 years old; it's going to take him some time.

Smith hasn't bought players to primarily come in and be the finished article from day one, he's bought players that he can develop to become the finished article at the club. Wesley has all the ingredients to be a quality striker, and it's now upto the coaching staff to bring it out of him. He need's to start putting in more performances like Everton and Norwich; and for that to happen he need's to start being smarter and more physical against opposition centre backs. Against Everton he bullied Keane and Mina for 90 minutes, they couldn't live with him.

I would start Davis on Wednesday and see how he gets on. If he plays well and bags a goal then play him Saturday whilst his confidence is up, send a message to Wesley. If not Wesley goes back in and we try to get the best out of him, unfortunately he will playing against the best centre back in the world so it gives our fans another chance to bash him.

[villalad21]

Wesley just doesn't look like he cares at times. He just switches off in so many games.

It really is reminiscent of Kodjia. Luxury players and we can't afford that.

We need someone like Davis, but better qualify of course. A striker that will fight his socks off for every single challenge.

I heard people saying Wesley is not used to the role of a lone forward. Well we are in a relegation fight and we can't afford to wait for him to come good.

Davis knows the role better and will do a job until January.