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Premier League 2019-2020 Thread

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42 minutes ago, Farlz said:

I'd have took a point before the game but considering the circumstances of them getting a red it's very disappointing. 

A big worry for me tonight was it looked like we had the 10 men. 

I'd love to know the amount of games over last 20 years we've faced 10 men at VP for decent chunk of second half and failed to win. We're frequently rubbish at moving the ball around when opposition go to ten men.

Remember that Boro game from a few years ago when they had Adama sent off after five minutes, that finished 0-0! Also the crazy Forest 5-5 last season, they had a player sent off at some point and we were leading 5-4 when that happened I think.

Compare tonight to when we went down to ten at Palace and we were just smashing the ball around anywhere. West Ham used their top level experience very well in the same situation.

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7 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

I'd love to know the amount of games over last 20 years we've faced 10 men at VP for decent chunk of second half and failed to win. We're frequently rubbish at moving the ball around when opposition go to ten men.

Remember that Boro game from a few years ago when they had Adama sent off after five minutes, that finished 0-0! Also the crazy Forest 5-5 last season, they had a player sent off at some point and we were leading 5-4 when that happened I think.

Compare tonight to when we went down to ten at Palace and we were just smashing the ball around anywhere. West Ham used their top level experience very well in the same situation.

That might have been the most frustrating game I ever saw.

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10 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Premier league is still pretty tight. Had the radio on and they were saying it's a poor start  for us as "we've only won one game." Man. United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Leicester, West Ham and all these other countless established teams have only won two games so far. Wolves have won zero games so far.

I'd prefer to be on 7 points now but it's o.k for me. We're not bottom or in the bottom 3 and our GD is o.k. All those things could change in next few weeks but you could also look at us conceding just one in our last three (and that was with 10 men) and that is usually fantastic building block for any team wanting to stay up rather than a defence that ships 2-3 on regular basis.

Our problems are in the final third.

It is however a key period after Arsenal.....homes v Brighton and Burnley and away to Norwich. Our November fixtures and early part of December look very tough on paper so we really need to pick up two wins from those games and be on 10 + points by time November comes round. Nott convinced we will be with lack of punch upfront though.

It can be spun however people want at this stage.

As per your example, it is of course accurate to say Wolves have failed to win yet, but some will say they’ve had a harder start than we have (and I’d wholeheartedly agree with that). However, they’ve picked up far fewer points compared to their fixtures last season, so it could be argued that’s a sign they’ll struggle.

All too early to say for certain.

If we had drawn the Bournemouth and Palace games (and we really could have done in both), I suspect people would be feeling a whole lot happier. Yes I know, ifs and buts. The point is I think most would be pretty content with six points at this stage. We’re not that far off.

After the Arsenal game I think we’ll be in the bottom three again, maybe we will be even if we get a draw. So I expect this place will be turbulent for the next couple of weeks.

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Someone made a good point in the ratings thread that if any of our relegation rivals had have had the same result against West Ham today in the same circumstances with them being down to ten men for a quarter of the game, then we wouldn't be saying that it's a good point for them, we'd be saying it's a good result for us, because we'd be expecting West Ham to lose in that scenario. In fact I'm sure that our relegation rivals will be delighted tonight not just with that we didn't win, but that we couldn't win even against ten men. Really need to get something now away to Arsenal to make ammends, not impossible, maybe we'll get a surprise result.

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It's a running theme for this club that somehow, it's both impossible to play against 10,and to play a man down. 

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Main positive for me is we limited them to one shot on target.

Of course we've spent a lot this summer but worth noting West Ham had in the final third tonight:

Haller, club record signing for 45m and already scored 3 in 3 for them before tonight.

Felipe Anderson 38m last summer, 2 caps for Brazil.

Yarmolenko, hit and miss wide player but 81 caps for the Ukraine. 15m signing.

Lanzini. Would've been in Argentina world cup squad but for ACL injury just before tournament.

They also put on for last 20 minutes Pablo Fornals who was excellent in the under 21 tournament this summer. Has two caps for full Spain team and cost 24m.

So their forward line cost 100m + alone.

We also didn't concede against Everton's 100m front 4.

O.k it's not Salah, Mane or Firmino but from what I've seen in premier league these first 4-5 games there's lots of good attacking talent in even the mid table teams so good standard league this season.

Either our back 5 are playing out of their skins atm or the defensively side of our team is working much better than we're realising. Only goal we've conceded since middle of August was with 10 men on the pitch so that is a building block going forward.

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Our central midfield right now seems incapable of dominating games.

Need to try Nakamba and Luiz together.

Edited by granto

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5 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

It hasn't been that hard either though. Three of our five games have been at home, and we've only played the 'top six' in 20% of the matches, instead of 30% over the season.

I was just referring to what was said in the previous post. I'd be lying if I said I'm not worried, although we're much better defensively than last season. I'm worried about our attacking threat, but apart from that I think I've seen what makes me comfortable. 

We're the newest team here, we can't expect to just come and win. It's frustrating I know, but we're a hard team to beat. We've lost 3 I know, but we've gifted Bournemouth then the referee gifted Palace. We were ok against Everton and West Ham. 

Our playing had couple of bad decisions yet they were doing ok (apart from the final third which is a concern).

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4 hours ago, useless said:

Someone made a good point in the ratings thread that if any of our relegation rivals had have had the same result against West Ham today in the same circumstances with them being down to ten men for a quarter of the game, then we wouldn't be saying that it's a good point for them, we'd be saying it's a good result for us, because we'd be expecting West Ham to lose in that scenario. In fact I'm sure that our relegation rivals will be delighted tonight not just with that we didn't win, but that we couldn't win even against ten men. Really need to get something now away to Arsenal to make ammends, not impossible, maybe we'll get a surprise result.

Yet we've had more mins against WBA, we only managed to go through Penalties and guess what happened after that?

Sometimes having extra man put pressure in teams like ours. I even remember a game which we drew with Man Utd (Benteke score one of his best goals), Gabby got sent off (if I remember well), I don't think Man Utd looked like winning the game, even though they had more than what we had against Spammers. 

Our team lack belief, lack confidence in the final third. Gladly we're good at the back, which was a worry when you think of Smith game. The draw and clean sheet is good to build our confidence. It's a confidence game. 

I remember the year we went down we were playing ok until our 10th game or so. We even drew with City. Our problem was we were losing by one goal every game, till we lost the whole remaining confidence. 

It came back in January when we drew with West Ham and Leicester, won against Palace and Norwich. But it was too late and then lost belief.

It's not just a quality game. 

I remember last season I was arguing that we had a chance of going up, but we need to click on, because I've seen alot in how Smith turned everything in his November run. 

The only worrying thing is our attack. So we need to rely in our defence. I'd say also we need Smith to focus on our midfield options soon. I'd even consider playing all 5 (Grealish, Nakamba, McGinn, Hourihane and Luiz).

If we can go to January having 18-20, then I think we could do with a goal scorer and Benrahma.

I'd consider playing Davis upfront against Arsenal, and getting Kodjia back to the team soon.

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Watford are playing Citeh. Dingles at Palace, Newcastle and Brighton.

Burnley and Norwich. Everton  and Sheffield. 

I can't see City losing twich on row. Palace are capable of getting a draw from Wolves. Newcastle and Burnley could go either way but we really need Burnley to do it. If these results happened atleast we'd have a big chance of staying out of bottom 3 even if we failed to get points from Arsenal.

Burnley and Norwich, hard one really. Not sure who'll be down there but I guess Norwich has a better chance of going down than Burnley. A draw would be fine.

Everton should be capable of beating Sheffield.

I think these small factors affects teams, so we need to keep in touch even if it was by other teams losing rather than us winning.

Newcastle will have couple of bad games after Brighton. So if they lose this they could be in a big trouble. 

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More doom and gloom on here I see. Quick to jump on the negatives but fail to appreciate the positives.

We played well for the majority of the game and deserved the 3 points slightly more than West Ham. But a point against a team that finished 10th and spent 40 million on a striker over the Summer is never a bad result. The game was end to end throughout and we tired in the second half just as the red card came about, pushing for the winner in the last 20 minutes unfortunately finished us off and we looked leggy for the last 10 minutes.

 

Positives 

  • Nakamba looks really classy, calm on the ball, breaks the play up and has a real engine on him. Can be forgiven for missing a few passes on his debut and after not playing competitive football for a while. He will improve in the next few weeks.
  • The defence was again absolutely solid. Only three clubs have conceded fewer goals than us and no side has kept more clean sheets (two). Engels and Mings look like a real force and Guilbert was impressive although burned out in the second half.
  • Going forward we looked good in patches, there were some brilliant breakaways but we weren't clinical enough to take advantage. Again this will improve with more game time.

 

Unfortunately there were a few negatives but they are things that Smith can now work on and try to iron out. We panicked with the ball at times which lead to misplaced passes, wrong passes and poor touches. The major problem is the lack of goals up front and for me Wesley didn't do enough, unfortunately we don't have many other options currently. Hourihane is also a big loss currently and shoehorning him into the team, especially at home, could be what we need to spark us back into life.

Overall it was a disappointing night but once again we haven't embarrassed ourselves and have shown signs of what we can do. With another solid defensive display on Sunday, we need to work hard at getting at Arsenals poor defense and we have a chance; it's certainly not over yet!

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6 minutes ago, wilko154 said:

we need to work hard at getting at Arsenals poor defense

With Wesley up front? Yeah good luck with that...

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From the first 5 games I’d say we have a very good chance of staying up. So far we are yet to play a team I think have a serious threat of relegation with maybe the exception of Bournemouth. 

We need to stay around the positions we are now by until December. That month will make or break our season for me with every game being a 6 pointer. 

Burnley at home also now feels like a must win. 

Hopefully going in to January we’ll be out the bottom 3 and can look to strengthen the attack at the point. 

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If's and But's

A points a point!

 

40 is the magic number of points we need to beat relegation. Last season this would have achieved 15th place in the league.

To achieve this we would require 4 points per month.

 

August - 3 points

September 

West Ham - Draw

Arsenal - Predicted Draw

Burnley - Predicted Win

 

Predicted Points - 5

Current Points - 1

 

If last nights draw is the point we pay back to August to bring our total to 4, we now have two games to pull in 4 points to bring us back on target.

I see no reason why we can't bring home a draw at the least on Sunday.

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Arsenal will beat us, Burnley is a tough game, massively optimistic to think 4 points will come from those two games.

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In the long run perhaps the news this Prince Abdullah guy is now in sole charge of Sheffield United is pretty good news for us?

Too much to hope for he'll sack Wilder for a "name" manager and sign half the Saudi Arabia national team in January? :thumb:

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A lot of people talk about us failing to capitalise on an easy start to the season but interestingly only 2 of the teams we have played so far are in the lower half of the table and they are top of that table in 11th and 12th respectively. 

Maybe our start wasn't as easy as it first seemed. 

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El Ghazi is much to in consistent for him to be a starter. I would push Grealish on the left and put Hourihane alongside McGinn.

Wouldn't think twice about it.

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1 hour ago, sidcow said:

A lot of people talk about us failing to capitalise on an easy start to the season but interestingly only 2 of the teams we have played so far are in the lower half of the table and they are top of that table in 11th and 12th respectively. 

Maybe our start wasn't as easy as it first seemed. 

For some of the teams, part of the reason they're in the top half of the table is because they *beat us*. It's just not a very good measure. 

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