villalad21 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, It's Your Round said: Do you believe that finishing this season is more important than the chance of safely starting next season? You can't finish off a full season without a working vaccine are you mad? The ones promoting to void this season and expecting next season to proceed by August/September are delusional. A vaccine could take as long as 1-2 years to be developed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's Your Round Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 1 minute ago, villalad21 said: You can't finish off a full season without a working vaccine are you mad? The ones promoting to void this season and expecting next season to proceed by August/September are delusional. A vaccine could take as long as 1-2 years to be developed. I’m aware of the timescales around a potential vaccine and only advocate starting football when it’s actually safe to do so, whenever that is. Football’s really not that important, certainly not compared to lives. However, your first point in bold also applies to finishing this season. It’s a bad idea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted May 2, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted May 2, 2020 3 hours ago, John said: St George's has 13 pitches, 5 of which are flood-lit, so if they plan to play EFL games as well you're 100% right. Wow, I didn’t realise they had so many! As long as they are all Premier League quality I do think they could do it actually. Yes, they will be beating people off with a stick. Leeds will probably be able to send in a whole army of spies and no one would notice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 20 minutes ago, villalad21 said: You can't finish off a full season without a working vaccine are you mad? The ones promoting to void this season and expecting next season to proceed by August/September are delusional. A vaccine could take as long as 1-2 years to be developed. For one, I'm in total agreement with you. I just do not see how a contact sport can be SAFELY played whilst adhering to any social distancing measures that are in place. I suppose there's the argument for everyone being tested pre-match at the stadium but to do that before every game played seems so unfair on the rest of society. Can I, or every other bugger that goes to work, be tested before we leave the house each day? Money before health, just like my employers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted May 2, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, villalad21 said: 1) You can't finish off a full season without a working vaccine are you mad? 2) The ones promoting to void this season and expecting next season to proceed by August/September are delusional. A vaccine could take as long as 1-2 years to be developed. 1) yes you can if the Government relaxes social distancing rules which they will eventually 2) A vaccine will probably be ready end of September hopefully and into mass manufacturing by the end of the year now with AstraZeneca in partnership with Oxford University. This has been so well reported there is no way you are not aware of this. Absolutely no way will they forgo next seasons £1.5bn or whatever is is just to play this seasons 10 games at any cost to recover £100m or whatever lower than quoted figure they eventually reach a deal for. God forgive me for replying though, I know you're on the wind up. Edited May 2, 2020 by sidcow 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 I wonder what the implications would be if football re-started and a player got infected, took it home and a wife or child caught it and died. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted May 2, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Villarocker said: I wonder what the implications would be if football re-started and a player got infected, took it home and a wife or child caught it and died. It would depend if the club was deemed negligent. If they are complying with Government requirements and have in place suitable risk management procedures they will probably be OK. It's no different to anything else. In a normal year they might catch seasonal flu or chicken pox and bring it home from work to their family who are harmed. Doesn't mean anyone has done anything wrong. That's why they won't be doing anything until the Government say it's OK to do so. If they can show they are not doing anything wrong and have taken reasonable precautions they should be OK. Edited May 2, 2020 by sidcow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 21 minutes ago, sidcow said: 2) A vaccine will probably be ready end of September hopefully If it is ready by then it would be very doable to finish both seasons. Again i don't see any reason to void this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 23 minutes ago, Villarocker said: I wonder what the implications would be if football re-started and a player got infected, took it home and a wife or child caught it and died. That’s why I don’t think we’ll see a quick restart because insurance companies aren’t going to cover this in the short term. I’m guessing that not only the league are checking with clubs and footballers but also insurances. Morally, football would be in a mess, imagine the uproar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, villalad21 said: If it is ready by then it would be very doable to finish both seasons. Again i don't see any reason to void this season. Vaccine by September, then it would have to be mass produced. Imagine the uproar if footballers got it before all the first line responders, elderly and vulnerable. Given the quick turnaround of the vaccine, I hope they aren’t pushing through too quickly because the cure could be worse than the virus. There is a reason vaccines take so long come out because they need to be safe. Imagine if the cure had unknown side affects and killed tens of thousands of people or more. At least we seem to know now that mutated versions of the virus are not s different from the original strain that a vaccine should work on any strain (to date). A piece of good news at least. I did hear that so far there are 30 different strains of the virus but couldn’t find any medical paper to confirm that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Villarocker said: For one, I'm in total agreement with you. I just do not see how a contact sport can be SAFELY played whilst adhering to any social distancing measures that are in place. I suppose there's the argument for everyone being tested pre-match at the stadium but to do that before every game played seems so unfair on the rest of society. Can I, or every other bugger that goes to work, be tested before we leave the house each day? Money before health, just like my employers. If they keep up with the 100,000 tests per day then by mid-August they could have done 10 million and in theory anyone who needs one will have had one or have quick access to one. If the track and tracing is up to scratch and if an antibody test is up and running by then, even better. Under those circumstances, testing footballers regularly doesn't seem so unfair on the rest of the population. However if they decide they'll start in a month to finish this season then it will be a PR disaster if the Premier League are either using up testing resources or putting players under undue risk by rushing it. That's before you even factor trying to keep it all fair on the pitch for all the reasons we have stated many times. Even in a couple of months with a gradual ramping up of training and careful management I think they could be ready to play, albeit behind closed doors still (imo starting the season with no fans is better than suddenly expecting teams to lose home advantage when it comes to the crucial part of the season). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post villabromsgrove Posted May 2, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 2, 2020 Talk of a vaccine by September is hugely optimistic. Just two people are being tested with the Oxford vaccine at this moment in time. If the vaccine doesn't cause side effects in the two "guinea pigs" then it will be given to increasingly larger test groups and gradually move on to meaningful numbers where a model study can be built on known data. The history of developing vaccines shows that the vast majority of attempts fail before a successful vaccine is produced. Oxford/Astra Zeneca sound hopeful, but have also realistically stated that they can't predict their testing outcomes. Many other large organisations are also developing vaccines and it is statistically probable that a 'foreign' pharmaceutical conglomerate will be the first to succeed, which means that the UK may be well down the queue when it comes to getting the vaccine. In my opinion the reason that there is so much positivity about the Oxford University trial is that the government know that the UK population desperately need some 'good news' to hang on to. It will at least get us through until mid / late summer when trial updates will start to more reliably predict an outcome. The next period of lockdown and social distancing will be all about a combination of continuing to manage the spread of Covid 19, while creating a believable myth that we can end the danger that Coronavirus presents sooner rather than later. The scientists involved in the search for a virus actually believe (hope?) that it will be the summer of 2021 before we can realistically expect a widespread and safe vaccine option. It is also a possibility that no vaccine will be found to eradicate Covid19, as there are currently four coronavirus's that attack humans and for which no vaccine has yet been found. The common cold is one of them. The Premier League are currently carrying out a marketing campaign which keeps the PL in the public eye, while maintaining the illusion that they will still have a product to sell in the near future. Their media sponsors and investors will demand that this mirage of smoke and mirrors continue in order to keep millions of football fans and "customers" involved for as long as possible in their stranded and collapsing hyper billionaire business. I prefer to think of the above comments as being realistic rather than negative, but you may well disagree, lol. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted May 2, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, villalad21 said: If it is ready by then it would be very doable to finish both seasons. Again i don't see any reason to void this season. Because 30th June all players and commercial deals end. And you can't start a new season in September and get it finished in time for the following season / euros / season after that and World Cup. Anyway the start / stop of the season is linked to Government distancing rules, not a vaccine anyway. A vaccine will bring the crowds back though. Edited May 2, 2020 by sidcow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only2McInallys Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 1 hour ago, sidcow said: 1) yes you can if the Government relaxes social distancing rules which they will eventually 2) A vaccine will probably be ready end of September hopefully and into mass manufacturing by the end of the year now with AstraZeneca in partnership with Oxford University. This has been so well reported there is no way you are not aware of this. Absolutely no way will they forgo next seasons £1.5bn or whatever is is just to play this seasons 10 games at any cost to recover £100m or whatever lower than quoted figure they eventually reach a deal for. God forgive me for replying though, I know you're on the wind up. The quickest time any vaccine has been produced until now has been over 2. years. The many problems they have when they start mass testing is they can’t expose someone to the virus on purpose because the chance of serious consequences is high. Therefore it is going to take a long time before they know whether it works. It will need to be tested if it will have any effect on pregnant women or nursing mothers this is going to take a long time. It will need to be tested if it reacts with other medications or other serious illnesses etc. The Oxford University vaccine is more about funding.To do mass testing is very expensive and they are trying to get the government to pay towards it. I don’t expect to see a vaccine this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: If they keep up with the 100,000 tests per day then by mid-August they could have done 10 million and in theory anyone who needs one will have had one or have quick access to one. If the track and tracing is up to scratch and if an antibody test is up and running by then, even better. Under those circumstances, testing footballers regularly doesn't seem so unfair on the rest of the population. However if they decide they'll start in a month to finish this season then it will be a PR disaster if the Premier League are either using up testing resources or putting players under undue risk by rushing it. That's before you even factor trying to keep it all fair on the pitch for all the reasons we have stated many times. Even in a couple of months with a gradual ramping up of training and careful management I think they could be ready to play, albeit behind closed doors still (imo starting the season with no fans is better than suddenly expecting teams to lose home advantage when it comes to the crucial part of the season). I think the problem as well is people thinking that 10 million is great but you think how many times people will be tested. You think if all the people who go in to be checked are tested, those that are positive are tested regularly until clear after a number of negative tests. Then you have all the first responders from doctors and nurses to ambulance, police, fire fighters etc etc being tested regularly then testing the elderly and vulnerable. It's literally not one person gets tested once but multiple times. I dont mind the players getting tested regularly and coming back but we need to make sure the priority to those who need it first and then luxury things like football come second. If 100,000 tests is that point then ok but sounds like we probably need to be more than that. The US was talking about 5 million tests per day needing to be where they get to and we are a fifth of their size so probably around 1 million. Maybe we need to be thinking more in the region of 250k to 500k per day before we get to regular football even BCD if they need regular testing. Then what happens if a footballer is infected....whole squad lockdown? recent opposition teams lockdown? what happens to football. The testing is only if you have it now as I understand and we need the anti-body test to do more. Edited May 2, 2020 by nick76 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 1 hour ago, villalad21 said: If it is ready by then it would be very doable to finish both seasons. Again i don't see any reason to void this season. You make a very convincing argument. Let's start playing tomorrow then. By the way, you are clearly Daniel Levy and I claim my £10! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted May 2, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted May 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Only2McInallys said: The quickest time any vaccine has been produced until now has been over 2. years. The many problems they have when they start mass testing is they can’t expose someone to the virus on purpose because the chance of serious consequences is high. Therefore it is going to take a long time before they know whether it works. It will need to be tested if it will have any effect on pregnant women or nursing mothers this is going to take a long time. It will need to be tested if it reacts with other medications or other serious illnesses etc. The Oxford University vaccine is more about funding.To do mass testing is very expensive and they are trying to get the government to pay towards it. I don’t expect to see a vaccine this year. I hope I don't get into trouble for this because I always seem to get a warning and I never know what I do wrong, but from the BBC website which follows the same theme as all other news outlets: The partnership with AstraZeneca aims to build capacity to produce tens of millions of doses by the end of the year, if the treatment is effective. "Our manufacturing capacity in the UK for vaccines isn't where it needs to be, and we're going to work together with AstraZeneca to improve that considerably," Prof Bell added. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted May 2, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted May 2, 2020 11 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said: Talk of a vaccine by September is hugely optimistic. I don't want to jinx it either, but the top bloke at Oxford was on TV two days ago and pressed on what this sept date actually meant, he clarified that if the science of it worked, they would have millions of doses ready to go - and the question then would be how much of the nation they should choose to vaccinate at that time. And for once, the person citing great sounding numbers and dates was not a Tory minister, so personally I trust them more. It really is now all down to the vaccine working - will be a huge worldwide dissappointment if it fails. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, sidcow said: I hope I don't get into trouble for this because I always seem to get a warning and I never know what I do wrong, but from the BBC website which follows the same theme as all other news outlets: The partnership with AstraZeneca aims to build capacity to produce tens of millions of doses by the end of the year, if the treatment is effective. "Our manufacturing capacity in the UK for vaccines isn't where it needs to be, and we're going to work together with AstraZeneca to improve that considerably," Prof Bell added. My problem with a lot of these big private companies is that they never deliver. It sounds great now, they get some great publicity now but I bet you when it gets to the end of the year they are nowhere near the capacity needed or they say they are aiming for. Everybody forgets what they said, they get applause now and it sounds great but these companies rarely deliver. It's like me saying I'm aiming to lose 20 pounds in weight. This lockdown and understanding that being overweight could affect my health and recovery especially from these kind of viruses and therefore I understand my diet and fitness regime is not where it needs to be, that'll be working with my family to improve this considerably. Reality is that I'll probably be 5 pounds heavy by christmas. I'm a cynic but essentially I say dont tell me, show me. Edited May 2, 2020 by nick76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted May 2, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted May 2, 2020 13 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said: In my opinion the reason that there is so much positivity about the Oxford University trial is that the government know that the UK population desperately need some 'good news' to hang on to. It will at least get us through until mid / late summer when trial updates will start to more reliably predict an outcome. The next period of lockdown and social distancing will be all about a combination of continuing to manage the spread of Covid 19, while creating a believable myth that we can end the danger that Coronavirus presents sooner rather than later. The one thing scientists value above all else is their medical reputation. Not in a million years will a medical researcher be putting their name to unrealistic claims just to help out the Government with a bit of good news. And AstraZeneca and their own scientists are clearly in agreement with them because no way a corporate company would buy into this so deeply they think it's going to work. For the 1, 000th time, they could easily develop a vaccine for The Common Cold but it's pointless because there are millions of different strains of The Common Cold. You would need a million different vaccines. That is not the case with Coronavirus unless it suddenly starts mutating rapidly which it hasn't done to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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