useless Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Yes I agree that working out by average points per game is just as unfair, because we've had less opportunities than other teams to boost our average. Doing it like that there's also a scenario whereby teams having played less games can have an unfair advantage over teams that have played more, for example if were just above the relegation zone with a game in hand and with a better PPG average than the team in eighteenth place, we could play that game in hand, lose it and suddenly have a worse PPG average than the team in eighteenth place. So unless everyone has played the same amount of games it's always going to be unfair. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 9 minutes ago, useless said: Man City were signing players like Bellamy, Bridge and Wright-Phillips and Given when they first had their takeover, might not seem like massive names now, but at the time those players were all highly rated, Bridge and Wright-Phillips were regulars for Chelsea who were always challenging for the title, the equivalent now would be Newcastle signing a couple of regulars from the Man City team, and Bellamy was getting games for Liverpool and Given was rated as one of the best goalkeepers in the league, next transfer window they were signing the likes of Tevez, Barry and Toure. There's a reason it only took them two seasons with a full summer transfer window with the then new owners to reach the champions league, and only three seasons to win the title, and that was because of the class of player that they were signing. Also I wouldn't be so sure that transfers for players are going to come down, football seems to operate in it's own bubble when it comes to that kind of thing. The last thing we want is to lose one of our better players for a reduced price, and then watch on as inferior players at other clubs move for bigger sums. Bridge had played 17 games in his last 2 seasons at Chelsea as Cole was rightfully ahead of him and Wright Phillips signed before the takeover and was hardly a regular starter at Chelsea anymore. Bellamy was also signed from West Ham as Liverpool didnt think he was good enough and his record at West Ham was average at best. City signed a lot of players good at mid-table clubs but couldnt make the step up except for Tevez and De Jong maybe Barry. Adebayor, Santa Cruz, Bridge, Lescott were average. It wasnt until 2 transfer windows they bought real quality 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 6 minutes ago, nick76 said: See, I disagree, I think it’ll barely touch it and while normal life will be hit for a long time to come....things like football prices will be barely be touched. The common man always gets smashed by these things.....the top end suffer short term pain but always come out of it ok....always happens and no reason for it to change. the money in football is not real economics though. top clubs are losing about 6-8million a week with no games on, its not sustainable. People have realised that people that run football are scumbags and will be a backlash when this is over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Yet after their first two summer transfer windows with the new owners they'd already reached the champions league, and then won the title after three transfer windows, that wouldn't have happened if they weren't signing quality players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 This might hinder Newcastle's takeover: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Zatman said: the money in football is not real economics though. top clubs are losing about 6-8million a week with no games on, its not sustainable. People have realised that people that run football are scumbags and will be a backlash when this is over Agree re losing money Disagree about the rest......we’ve always known they are run by scumbags from Blatter, Italian betting scandal, Qatar chosen for WC, Glaziers, even MBS the new Newcastle owner had an American journalist hacked to death.....nothing changes. As I said they’ll have short term pain but then they’ll be back to their usual selves once it calms down and people will forget or not care enough to do anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 2 hours ago, nick76 said: Why... Newcastle will have new funds, Man U will spend big despite what the Guardian says (they are just dampening fees), Man City will spend to regain ground on Liverpool Chelsea will spend now the ban is lifted Spurs, I’m sure Mourniho will change players in his squad I don’t think players value will change, with fresh funds in the market, competition between teams offsetting losses of closed football. Plus clubs are used to getting value for players, they aren’t going to accept less....if we wanted 70m for Jack before, are you happy to accept 40m now.....no way! Whilst there’s no football or prospect of football of course the value of players go down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Bottom line with the funding they have if they follow the plan that City took they will be successful within a season or 2 , job may even be easier as currently you have City banned from Champs league leaving 4 spots and only Liverpool IMO are the bankers for it next season ( when it happens) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, Nabby said: Bottom line with the funding they have if they follow the plan that City took they will be successful within a season or 2 , job may even be easier as currently you have City banned from Champs league leaving 4 spots and only Liverpool IMO are the bankers for it next season ( when it happens) Took City 3 seasons to even qualify for Champions League and they had a better base and weaker competition compared to now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Zatman said: Wow whatever happens they will finish the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 City's takeover wasn't announced until a few days before the summer transfer deadline in 2008, so they only had two full summers with their new owners before qualifying for champions league, and only three full summers before winning the title. Also previous to the takeover they'd finished nineth, fourteenth and fifteenth so they weren't in that much better shape than Newcastle are in now, and when you consider that Sheffield United or Wolves could possibly qualify for champions league this season then I'm not so sure that it was any easier then than it is now. One thing you can say about Manchester City is that they were quite smart about it, Robinho aside they didn't just throw their money at galactico type players for the sake of it, they had a good plan to go with their money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 1 hour ago, PaulC said: Whilst there’s no football or prospect of football of course the value of players go down Eh? Is this a troll comment..... when a car has no fuel it doesn’t run either but when it has fuel it does......not sure I follow your point! When football is back the players will have value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, nick76 said: Eh? Is this a troll comment..... when a car has no fuel it doesn’t run either but when it has fuel it does......not sure I follow your point! When football is back the players will have value Quote Financial impact of the novel Coronavirus on top five football leagues will severely damage the top players transfer values next year. The CIES Football Observatory Weekly Post has predicted that the players’ transfer values may fall by up 28%. The COVID-19 virus, still without an anti-dose, is impacting the sports business worldwide and an abrupt suspension of leagues has hit the football world hard. The report observes that the player transfer value of the Big Five Leagues – Premier League, LaLiga, Serie A, Bundesliga and Ligue1 – will collapse by 28% from € 32.7 mn this year to € 23.4 million. The assumption is based on leagues are shut down and player contracts are not extended until the end of June. “Of course, this is a very hypothetical scenario, but a 28% loss to me is quite credible because it will probably correspond to the loss of income clubs will be confronted with,” Dr Raffaele Poli, co-founder of CIES Football Observatory, told me in an interview. Top international clubs like Juventus have already reached agreement with their players and staff to slash salaries by up to 33% to offload the financial burden since the novel Coronavirus pandemic has forced an abrupt halt to the season. The coronavirus pandemic is heavily impacting the football industry, the CIES Football Observatory has revealed in its 289th issue of the Weekly Post, which presents the gaps in the players’ estimated transfer value in the event that no matches will be played and no contract will be extended until the end of June. The extent of the decrease will vary according to several factors such as the players’ age, contract duration, career path and recent performance. The greatest loss in relative terms will concern ageing footballers with short-term contracts as they have played fewer matches during current season than in the previous one. As matter of example, Paul Pogba’s estimated transfer value would almost halve from €65M to €35M. https://www.insidesport.co/sports-business-player-transfer-value-to-fall-by-28-due-to-clubs-loss/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, sne said: https://www.insidesport.co/sports-business-player-transfer-value-to-fall-by-28-due-to-clubs-loss/ Never going to happen. Can you really imagine Villa selling Grealish for 40m instead of 70m. Imagine the backlash from fans. Unless a team is in financial distress then there will be some cheaper signings but not PL to PL. No way top players are going on the cheap compared to two months ago. How would you react if Villa sold Jack to Man U for 40m in August? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 1 minute ago, nick76 said: Never going to happen. Can you really imagine Villa selling Grealish for 40m instead of 70m. Imagine the backlash from fans. Unless a team is in financial distress then there will be some cheaper signings but not PL to PL. No way top players are going on the cheap compared to two months ago. How would you react if Villa sold Jack to Man U for 40m in August? But every club doesn't have new super rich owners like us. And most clubs have massive debts to other clubs for transfers they have not paid off. We might not have to sell our prized asset if we stay up but tons and tons of clubs will be forced to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, sne said: But every club doesn't have new super rich owners like us. And most clubs have massive debts to other clubs for transfers they have not paid off. We might not have to sell our prized asset if we stay up but tons and tons of clubs will be forced to. But not Liverpool, Man C or U, Everton, Chelsea, Newcastle, Villa, Spurs, Arsenal, Leicester still have a war chest, and I’m guessing some others....so small teams suffer as usual but basically most of the PL will be fine and thus won’t change. The big clubs get bigger, the small clubs get smaller.....big transfers fees won’t change between big/large medium/rich owner clubs...so it’s only buying players from the championship maybe a little cheaper. So what has changed then? Edited April 20, 2020 by nick76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Can see more loan deals in next transfer window, gives clubs 12 months to get finances back into shape particularly as a fair chunk of next season will likely be BCD aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 1 minute ago, nick76 said: But not Liverpool, Man C or U, Everton, Chelsea, Newcastle, Villa, Spurs, Arsenal, Leicester still have a war chest, and I’m guessing some others....so small teams suffer as usual but basically most of the PL will be fine and thus won’t change. The big clubs get bigger, the small clubs get smaller.....big transfers fees won’t change between big/large medium/rich owner clubs...so it’s only buying players from the championship maybe a little cheaper. Well at least I think we agree on that the gap between the super rich and the others will get even bigger. All hinges on these clubs actually getting their TV cash thou. Man U for example have a combined £200m debt to other clubs for unpaid transfers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedman Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 3 hours ago, useless said: Yes I agree that working out by average points per game is just as unfair, because we've had less opportunities than other teams to boost our average. Doing it like that there's also a scenario whereby teams having played less games can have an unfair advantage over teams that have played more, for example if were just above the relegation zone with a game in hand and with a better PPG average than the team in eighteenth place, we could play that game in hand, lose it and suddenly have a worse PPG average than the team in eighteenth place. So unless everyone has played the same amount of games it's always going to be unfair. Fairest things to do in order 1) finish the season as normal 2) finish the season behind closed doors 3) null and void the season 4) the no relegation, promote the top 2 idea 5) Call the league done, wipe out the last result of every team who have played an extra game to make it games played even 6) Use average points to finish the season 7) End the table as it stands Personally I think that only the first 3 options are remotely realistic, and with the finances involved in a full PL season they won't impact next season to finish this one. If a new season has to start by say, the start of September latest, players and clubs will need at least say a 2 week pre season, following at least a 2 week end of season break. I think they've said it'll take 6 weeks to finish the season, and players will need at least 2 weeks to get up to speed again. So that's 12 weeks between training restarting and next season started, which is a massive push of course, but these are trying times. Working back from September 5th (latest the new season could realistically start I'd reckon), that means players have to be back in full training by June 13th at the absolute latest. All that assumes that they can get around the 30th June deadline, which would surprise me given what's potentially at stake (although not a lot will be official, I'm sure there are a lot of out of contract players that have preliminarily agreed new deals, are they going to risk a career ending injury on a short term contract that scuppers their new contract?) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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