Delphinho123 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Needing a miracle would be us being 20th, dead and buried and we put together a huge run and stay up. Our situation now does not require a miracle. We're not even in the bottom 3. By the next time we play, we could well and truly be in there. I think a lot of people are burying their heads in the sand with this notion of ‘well, if you’d offered me 17th at this point during the season...’. Yes, we’re not in the relegation zone but look at our stats, recent performances and next few fixtures. It really isn’t looking good and I don’t think Smith will stop the rot. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zab6359 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 6 minutes ago, Nigel said: I'm trying not to be argumentative, merely curious as to your original point. If you make a point then you have to be able to back it up, kinda the whole point of a board like this. It's an interesting topic of conversation. Fair enough I don't think they have improved as I believe results would also have improved, you feel individuals have improved but have also been unable to back it up as results haven'y improved. Interesting topic indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 If Trezeguet and Wesley have improved, Christ, how bad must have they been when we signed them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 25 minutes ago, vreitti said: It doesn't really matter whether the players have improved or not. Results clearly haven't improved. The fact of the matter is we've not taken enough points from our "easier" games. Now we need to take points from teams better than us. It is by all means highly unlikely to happen. It's going to take a miracle for us to still be in this league next season. I'll take 4th place Chelsea as an example so far this season they've dropped points at home to west ham, Bournemouth and Southampton and dropped points away to brighton and newcastle its by no means unlikely to happen, the PL is a very poor league hence the "excitement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxfordVillan Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, PaulC said: Our performance against Liverpool at home was great but that’s a long time ago now. West Ham are on an horrific run, it seems that Gold and Sullivan have sucked the life out of the club. Fans aren’t happy. We are In a much more positive state than they are but I think they have better players West Ham will gain confidence from their display at Anfield, they probably should have won that game. If they take that confidence and similar performance into their next game at home to Southampton then they have a good chance of 3pts. We cannot and should not be looking at others results to help us, we should be adapting our mindset & philosophy to deal with the here & now. The horrific stats above tell anyone which way we are heading, and I’ve been saying it for a long time that we offer up too many chances. Our front men have proven not good enough for us to play any system with 3 at the top, the midfield equally incapable of having just a pair of CMs. For me we have to go either 3-5-2, 3-6-1, or 4-5-1. Trezeguet doesn’t have enough, ElGhazi doesn’t look up for anything other than TV/showpiece games. We need players with bottle and determination at this time, experience helps. ............................................Reina....................................... Guilbert..............Engels....................Mings............Targett Elmo.......McGinn......Nakamba......Drinkwater.......Grealish ....................................Samatta............................................ Lets become more difficult to score against and earn the right in games for Grealish or Samatta to nick a goal here and there. Luiz has been better off the bench. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Nigel said: It's not the point of whether or not I think they have improved (I think most have individually btw) but where you have the idea that to a man they havnt? What metric would you even use? There's this rather unknown statistic/metric called "subjective opinion". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zab6359 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 9 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: If Trezeguet and Wesley have improved, Christ, how bad must have they been when we signed them? Stop it you're killing me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted February 25, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, zab6359 said: Fair enough I don't think they have improved as I believe results would also have improved, you feel individuals have improved but have also been unable to back it up as results haven'y improved. Interesting topic indeed. But there is the crux of my point, points on the board and player improvement dont correlate as easy as that, there are far more reasons. I didn't mention results, merely that the players have improved individually; just that they will need more time to get to where we want them. My point is that we are on the right path, just hope that we can scrape by to allow the next stage! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zab6359 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Nigel said: But there is the crux of my point, points on the board and player improvement dont correlate as easy as that, there are far more reasons. I didn't mention results, merely that the players have improved individually; just that they will need more time to get to where we want them. My point is that we are on the right path, just hope that we can scrape by to allow the next stage! Fair enough if you feel we are on the right path all well and good, I don't right now and feel we need some changes to get to that right path Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted February 25, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said: There's this rather unknown statistic/metric called "subjective opinion". Like flat earthers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermon Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 26 minutes ago, PaulC said: Our performance against Liverpool at home was great but that’s a long time ago now. West Ham are on an horrific run, it seems that Gold and Sullivan have sucked the life out of the club. Fans aren’t happy. We are In a much more positive state than they are but I think they have better players I think the difference is that they will take heart from their loss to Liverpool, others would have rightly said the same about us after the Spurs he yet we royally **** up in that game. So at present i think it is fair to say West Ham will have optimism going into their next few fixtures. After our shit performance most fans will fairly asses our upcoming fixtures with dread. So I would not agree that we are necessarily in a more positive position. Given the cup game and our remaining games compared to West Ham's remaining games, it is us who have it harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 8 minutes ago, Nigel said: But there is the crux of my point, points on the board and player improvement dont correlate as easy as that, there are far more reasons. I didn't mention results, merely that the players have improved individually; just that they will need more time to get to where we want them. My point is that we are on the right path, just hope that we can scrape by to allow the next stage! Not sure this group of players will ever get to where we want them to be. If we stay in the league, we’d need to replace at least 6 players in this team. So many are not good enough and carried by Grealish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted February 25, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 25, 2020 Just now, Delphinho123 said: Not sure this group of players will ever get to where we want them to be. If we stay in the league, we’d need to replace at least 6 players in this team. So many are not good enough and carried by Grealish. Probably, maybe not next year but in the next few. We definitely need better quality now we dont need to buy an entire team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pintpotvilla Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: Not sure this group of players will ever get to where we want them to be. If we stay in the league, we’d need to replace at least 6 players in this team. So many are not good enough and carried by Grealish. Don't think it was ever meant to be the team to take us on to better things. If we stay up they will add accordingly Edited February 25, 2020 by pintpotvilla 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 minute ago, pintpotvilla said: Don't think it was ever meant to be the team to take us on to better things. If we stay up they will add accordingly I agree. And I would not be surprised if the management and scouting teams might be looked at as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, supermon said: I think the difference is that they will take heart from their loss to Liverpool, others would have rightly said the same about us after the Spurs he yet we royally **** up in that game. So at present i think it is fair to say West Ham will have optimism going into their next few fixtures. After our shit performance most fans will fairly asses our upcoming fixtures with dread. So I would not agree that we are necessarily in a more positive position. Given the cup game and our remaining games compared to West Ham's remaining games, it is us who have it harder. so this weekend we play in a cup final whilst they protest their home game but they have more optimism and heart than us? https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/west-ham-fans-protest-owners-southampton-a4371116.html A group of West Ham fans are planning their next protest against under-fire co-owners David Sullivan and David Gold ahead of Saturday’s home game against Southampton. Supporters released black balloons before-kick off at Anfield on Monday night and unfurled anti-board banners demanding changes from Gold, Sullivan and vice-chair Karren Brady. Sullivan, Gold and Brady yesterday postponed a planned meeting with fan groups until the end of the season in order to overhaul the club’s Official Supporters Board [OSB]. Edited February 25, 2020 by villa4europe 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, pintpotvilla said: Don't think it was ever meant to be the team to take us on to better things. If we stay up they will add accordingly Indeed, you would hope/assume alot of these would eventually be squad players at best. Perhaps even sent out on loan to get more experience of English football and develop. Part of a long term strategy, so at worst, we make some money on them or break even at least. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 50 minutes ago, OxfordVillan said: West Ham will gain confidence from their display at Anfield, they probably should have won that game. If they take that confidence and similar performance into their next game at home to Southampton then they have a good chance of 3pts. We cannot and should not be looking at others results to help us, we should be adapting our mindset & philosophy to deal with the here & now. I agree 100% with the above which I've put in bold. I also agree that West Ham will take some confidence from last night, but we did our bit for Southampton's confidence last weekend. I therefore have my fingers crossed for a Saints win in Stratford on Saturday and for Liverpool winning at Watford on the same day. That would leave us outside the bottom three, with a game in hand on Sunday.Perhaps I haven't quite given up on other results helping us, just yet! Edited February 25, 2020 by John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 I must be the only one who thinks after spending the money we did, our expectations should be a little more than to just survive. If I owned our club and had watched all of our games this season, id be asking some serious questions of the scouts and the recruitment team. I just don’t buy into the idea of spending all that money to survive by the smallest of margins and then to replace all of the players we spent the money on in the following summer window. I’m not saying we should be challenging for Europe or even challenging for a top 10 spot but looking at our current predicament and the performances of the likes of Wesley, Trezeguet, Luiz, Konsa, Nakamba, Engels over the course of the season, it just isn’t good enough for the investment made. Like I say, maybe I’m the only one and our plan all along was to just assemble a squad of players for this season before binning them off and starting again the following year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 59 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: By the next time we play, we could well and truly be in there. I think a lot of people are burying their heads in the sand with this notion of ‘well, if you’d offered me 17th at this point during the season...’. Yes, we’re not in the relegation zone but look at our stats, recent performances and next few fixtures. It really isn’t looking good and I don’t think Smith will stop the rot. The Southampton performance was bad, but was our performance against Spurs bad? (Try to avoid the predictable reply of saying that ‘we lost the game’. I’m asking about our performance). Prior to that there was Bournemouth (bad first half, ‘okay’ second half), Leicester (good performance), Watford (okay-to-good in places), Brighton (bad first half, okay second half), Man City (bad all round) and Leicester away (good performance). (All in my opinion, of course). I look at our recent performances and I see a mixed bag, where we could have done better without individual errors (Spurs home and Leicester away - IIRC it was a Luiz mistake that lead to their equaliser). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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