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MikeMcKenna

Selling Villa Park?

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2 hours ago, snowychap said:

The company with the title to Villa Park, which has Villa Park on its balance sheet, owns Villa Park.

And whoever owns that company owns Villa Park!

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Sell it to NSWE Stadium for a massive amount and lease back to the club for peanuts for a year.   NSWE Stadium then sells it back to the club for one pound.  Rinse, repeat.   Continuous source of income for FFP purposes, cost neutral for the owners since they're selling to and buying from themselves.   Easy peasy.

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3 minutes ago, il_serpente said:

Sell it to NSWE Stadium for a massive amount and lease back to the club for peanuts for a year.   NSWE Stadium then sells it back to the club for one pound.  Rinse, repeat.   Continuous source of income for FFP purposes, cost neutral for the owners since they're selling to and buying from themselves.   Easy peasy.

What would happen if they decide to sell the club whilst the Stadium is leased, where would be the motive to sell back the ground for £1 then?

 

They could potentially rinse us for millions more in the future if things don't work out.

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19 minutes ago, lp_villa830 said:

They could potentially rinse us for millions more in the future if things don't work out.

Who is "us" in this scenario? Whoever NSWE sell the club to?

I think that might come up in the negotiations.

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5 hours ago, snowychap said:

According to Companies House, there was a resolution passed last Friday to rename one of the companies (a dormant one in the FY ending May 18 - company number 10883540) from Recon Football Limited to NSWE Stadium Limited.

Might that be an indication of an intent to move the stadium asset from one subsidiary company's balance sheet to another?

 

Exactly what I thought when I read this the other day. It’s just playing the game. Any future buyer will will want the ground so they will buy AVFC Limited plus NSWE Stadium Limited as one aggregated package.

TBH we were flat broke and only saved by NSWE from going into administration last year, we owe it all to them - all the bank rolling, wages, signings etc, don’t forget they turned down a decent offer for Jack when without them it wasn’t possible. If we had gone through the club would have lost control of the ground anyway. If they own both club and ground but under separate companies it’s the same as this capitalisation they have been doning since they arrived (pumping cash into the club for new shares - asset isn’t increasing in value they are ‘investing’ in the future with their own money. This is the same but it at least it is viewed by FFP as a legitimate source of income. 

Famous last words but they seem upstanding owners, I think they are just being smart and being prudent and the club will benefit in the long run.

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34 minutes ago, New_Hope said:

And whoever owns that company owns Villa Park!

No, they don't.

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Let’s just remember this isnt the fraud Dr X proposing this and in essence it is an accounting exercise  to circumnavigate FFP ... fair value has been set @ £89 million for a 30k ground so we’d be looking at around £100 mill plus hypothetically ... it could also be linked to potential stadium improvements and / or redevelopment.. it’s pure speculation at present and all that has happened is a dormant company had been renamed ... 

Edited by thabucks
Got my is and isn’t mixed up ...

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24 minutes ago, lp_villa830 said:

What would happen if they decide to sell the club whilst the Stadium is leased, where would be the motive to sell back the ground for £1 then?

 

They could potentially rinse us for millions more in the future if things don't work out.

Who is “us”? They own Villa Park not us. It’s just transferring an asset to a another wholly owned company. 

They buy the club for £30m, personally incur the trading loss, inject about £35m of capital into the company, sell the stadium to themselves for say £100m and you are worried. Just remind yourself they have therefore invested over £170m, how might we be concerned that they are pulling a fast one? If we were sold tomorrow with the stadium we would only get about £30-£40m. This if anything reassures me they are looking at building the club to a major valuation (read £1b+) by investing and making us a much bigger and more successful club. 

The stadium saga is a non issue.

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8 minutes ago, limpid said:

Who is "us" in this scenario? Whoever NSWE sell the club to?

I think that might come up in the negotiations.

I'm sure it would come up in negotiations, but we wouldn't be the first club sold without the stadium to some chancers in the future.

 

The 'us' part referred to the Club In general potentially having to pay millions in rent every year out of its own income if any future owners are unwilling to invest.

 

Admittedly all hypothetical and they haven't done anything to doubt they're current motives are anything other than to get us promoted, but you never know what is around the corner.

 

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1 minute ago, lp_villa830 said:

I'm sure it would come up in negotiations, but we wouldn't be the first club sold without the stadium to some chancers in the future.

The 'us' part referred to the Club In general potentially having to pay millions in rent every year out of its own income if any future owners are unwilling to invest.

Admittedly all hypothetical and they haven't done anything to doubt they're current motives are anything other than to get us promoted, but you never know what is around the corner.

Unless you are in a position to buy the club in general, there's nothing that you can do about it. So personally, I'd worry about it if it happens.

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6 minutes ago, limpid said:

Unless you are in a position to buy the club in general, there's nothing that you can do about it. So personally, I'd worry about it if it happens.

Well in that case why do we bother debating about potential signings, matches, sponsors, contracts, kits etc.

 

We have no input into any of them either.

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I'd prefer to use the stadium as income , host other events music festival  other sports while not in use 

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All I know is that pretty much every club who have separated ownership of the stadium away from the club has come a cropper. 

And whilst things are totally rosy right now for Manchester City and West Ham, as ourselves and Sunderland have shown it only takes one pratt of an owner to ruin the place, a couple of bad years and suddenly those payments you have to make on the stadium can become a crushing burdon, and Landlords can get very very twitchy with tenants who don't pay rent. 

Seperating the stadium from the club should never ever happen. 

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1 hour ago, lp_villa830 said:

I'm sure it would come up in negotiations, but we wouldn't be the first club sold without the stadium to some chancers in the future.

 

The 'us' part referred to the Club In general potentially having to pay millions in rent every year out of its own income if any future owners are unwilling to invest.

 

Admittedly all hypothetical and they haven't done anything to doubt they're current motives are anything other than to get us promoted, but you never know what is around the corner.

 

Or potentially some chances deciding they want to sell the club and keep hold of the stadium. Separating the two is non negotiable for me, it should not happen except in the most dire of circumstances e.g. last summer if a buyer for the club as a whole couldn't be found.

It's a slippery road. Far too many people willing to put too much faith in ruthless billionaires. We don't know these people, they have yet to earn our trust and likely never should given our history. 

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I really do not see an issue with this. Maybe i'm just naive tho.

 

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14 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

I really do not see an issue with this. Maybe i'm just naive tho.

 

It’s not an issue whilst the owners of the stadium still own the club. It could be an issue if, when the owners sell the club, they decide to keep the stadium.

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14 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I would rather take the 9 point deduction. 

At first I didn't understand why, but having thought about it I completely agree. Short termism at is very best!

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8 hours ago, brommy said:

It’s not an issue whilst the owners of the stadium still own the club. It could be an issue if, when the owners sell the club, they decide to keep the stadium.

But why would they do that? Anyone who would want to buy the club would want the stadium too? It would be part of the negotiation process. I can't imagine anyone buying villa but not the stadium, that makes no sense to me at all. 

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22 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

But why would they do that? Anyone who would want to buy the club would want the stadium too? It would be part of the negotiation process. I can't imagine anyone buying villa but not the stadium, that makes no sense to me at all. 

Hello, my name is P. Developer. I have a plan,  I want to build a multi purpose sports/casino/music venue by the NEC. so I need a sports franchise to make it work, financially - I’m taking a big gamble with my finances with this venue. So anyway I want to buy the AV franchise and play it’s games at my sports dome. Personally I don’t follow football, but I heard Villa is a historied franchise.

what could possibly go wrong?

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I would think they are covering themselves should we not get promoted.  Do we just give up on our dream should the unthinkable happen or do we get creative to remain a challenger in this league should we not go up.

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