Notre Dame Cathedral on fire

[snowychap]

1 minute ago, villa4europe said:

bit of both if im honest

these billionaires will want / get something in return from the government

if they have the chance the friends of notre dame will throw one hell of a Christmas party with the billionaires donations, hence why I wouldn't give them my money either, that representative for the cathedral complaining about the money not turning up will be paid his very good wages long before a brick is laid there, these billionaires aren't that daft, they will bypass them every chance they get, they're not even a cog in the wheel let alone a big one

But it's not just about a brick being laid, is it? They've got to do all sorts of work to do in order to even prepare the place for a first brick to be laid.

The dirty, unheralded but necessary work is probably going to be funded by small donors, charitable organizations being criticised for their own existence and the French people (via the French State) and then the rich will swan in and exploit that situation.

Plus ça change.

[villa4europe]

Just now, snowychap said:

But it's not just about a brick being laid, is it? They've got to do all sorts of work to do in order to even prepare the place for a first brick to be laid.

The dirty, unheralded but necessary work is probably going to be funded by small donors, charitable organizations being criticised for their own existence and the French people (via the French State) and then the rich will swan in and exploit that situation.

Plus ça change.

yep and until that work is properly estimated and there is transparency as to how much money they already have, how much money they will recover from insurance and how much money will be made available from the French government then I personally wouldn't be handing over 200m to them

there is too much uncertainty on the project to justify handing over the cash IMO

when the feasibility studies have been done, when a design team and project management team can say it will cost 2bn and it will take 4 years then you can say how much is in the pot? here is my 200m

if the project is going to cost 800m and they've already raised 1bn then I wouldn't be giving them a penny, that's the reality of it, the problem is these billionaires used it for publicity

[bickster]

39 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Could you please explain what you mean by 'Peadophile Cult' ?

The Catholic Church, enabler and coverer up of paedophiles worldwide and one of the richest organisations in the world

[snowychap]

24 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

yep and until that work is properly estimated and there is transparency as to how much money they already have, how much money they will recover from insurance and how much money will be made available from the French government then I personally wouldn't be handing over 200m to them

there is too much uncertainty on the project to justify handing over the cash IMO

when the feasibility studies have been done, when a design team and project management team can say it will cost 2bn and it will take 4 years then you can say how much is in the pot? here is my 200m

if the project is going to cost 800m and they've already raised 1bn then I wouldn't be giving them a penny, that's the reality of it, the problem is these billionaires used it for publicity

I know you didn't make the pledge, so this isn't directed at you obviously but rather at those who did make these pledges:

Don't **** claim to pledge that money in the first place.

[villa4europe]

3 minutes ago, snowychap said:

I know you didn't make the pledge, so this isn't directed at you obviously but rather at those who did make these pledges:

Don't **** claim to pledge that money in the first place.

yeah I agree! that's where they've royally **** up

linked to what bickster is saying, there's one thing donating money to your city for one its landmarks, then there's also the surplus landing in the pockets of the catholic church

depends on their motives in the 1st place but I would be incredibly wary of the 2nd

 

[Mic09]

28 minutes ago, bickster said:

The Catholic Church, enabler and coverer up of paedophiles worldwide and one of the richest organisations in the world

Ok.

I'd advise being careful with throwing accusations such as the 'paedophile cult' when referring to an organisation whose vast majority of members, including myself, do not support nor accept paedophilia.

I know that my 'cult' isn't how you described it, and in the light of respect to normal people and basic human decency, I would encourage you to not pigeon hole it under the umbrella term of 'paedophile cult' 

[bickster]

1 minute ago, Mic09 said:

Ok.

I'd advise being careful with throwing accusations such as the 'paedophile cult' when referring to an organisation whose vast majority of members, including myself, do not support nor accept paedophilia.

I know that my 'cult' isn't how you described it, and in the light of respect to normal people and basic human decency, I would encourage you to not pigeon hole it under the umbrella term of 'paedophile cult' 

I'd advise you stop gifting money to an organiusation that enables and covers up paedophiles. The evidence available is overwhelming

[Mic09]

7 minutes ago, bickster said:

I'd advise you stop gifting money to an organiusation that enables and covers up paedophiles. The evidence available is overwhelming

How do you know I give any money to them? 

Regardless, I simply feel that 'catholic church = peadophilia' is on par with other racist, bigot or xenophobic assumptions such as 'gypsies are thieves' 'black people are criminals', 'arabs are terrorists' or 'polish people steal English jobs'.

In my opinion, there is no place for that sort of a generalisation, but feel free to disagree. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Mic09

[Chindie]

In fairness there's an overwhelming amount of evidence that the Catholic Church is involved in a institutional cover up of child abuse on a global scale, and has been for a bloody long time.

With respect to Notre Dame, whilst it is obviously a French national monument the Catholic Church could probably afford to put up a few quid to renovate it.

[bickster]

3 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

How do you know I give any money to them? 

Regardless, I simply feel that 'catholic church = peadophilia' is on par with other racist, bigot or xenophobic assumptions such as 'gypsies are thieves' 'black people are criminals', 'arabs are terrorists' or 'polish people steal English jobs'.

In my opinion, there is no place for that sort of a generalisation, but feel free to disagree. 

When the covering up of paedophilia goes all the way to the top of the organisation, the very top, including the current and past wearers of the pointy hat, how else would you describe an organisation?

Just for the sake of clarity were it needed. Indiviual Catholics do not equate to the Organisation known as the Catholic Church but the actual church is beyond doubt an enabler and coverer up of paedophiles

[Mic09]

11 minutes ago, bickster said:

When the covering up of paedophilia goes all the way to the top of the organisation, the very top, including the current and past wearers of the pointy hat, how else would you describe an organisation?

Just for the sake of clarity were it needed. Indiviual Catholics do not equate to the Organisation known as the Catholic Church but the actual church is beyond doubt an enabler and coverer up of paedophiles

No argument that covering of paedophilia goes to the top of organisation, as well as lower ranks of priesthood. 

However, I advised a bit carefulness as each catholic will claim that they are a part of the church and part of the organisation. Hence, calling it a 'paedophilia cult' is a bit disrespectful and inaccurate.

[bickster]

17 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

each catholic will claim that they are a part of the church and part of the organisation.

How individuals choose to identify themselves really is not in my control but if it were me and I believed in this particular brand of prophet, I'd disassociate myself from the larger organisation rather quickly.

 

Anyway back to the matter at hand, the Vatican should be paying huge portions of this