brommy Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 52 minutes ago, Keyblade said: I don't know that he's not racist now. I do know for sure however that he was in the past. But like John Barnes said, in a sense, thinking like that wasn't entirely his fault. Which is why I don't really like the term racist. Not because it's not an apt descriptor but because of the connotations attached to it and how people react to that. People (both those who use the term, and those on the receiving end of it) seem to view it as a fatal character flaw, when a lot of the time it stems from ignorance and social conditioning and can be corrected and moved past. This is why some people get really defensive when that word gets thrown around. Being called a racist is basically being told you are an awful human being beyond redemption, and that can't be true can it? Everyone is a good person in their own eyes. Of course outrage and cancel culture only aggravate the situation but that shouldn't make people shy away from the very important conversations under all of that. Yes 'cancelling' Liam Neeson for thinking a certain way 30 years ago seems a little overboard but that should not take away from the conversation to be had about what led a man to even think that way in the first place. Yep, racism existed and still exists, although, I like to think, to a lesser extent. Perhaps Liam Neeson’s naive honesty/bizarre promotion tactic should be commended in helping us all examine our past, present and future attitudes to difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 3 hours ago, mjmooney said: Nobody is saying it wasn't racist. On the contrary, Neeson was confessing that it was. Did he? I didn't see that. I saw him regretting the incident and accepting responsibility, but haven't seen him acknowledging it as racist. Could you point me towards where he's quoted as doing so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted February 6, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted February 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, peterms said: Did he? I didn't see that. I saw him regretting the incident and accepting responsibility, but haven't seen him acknowledging it as racist. Could you point me towards where he's quoted as doing so? Well, pedantically, you're right - he didn't say it was racist. But I can't put any other interpretation on his clearly shamefaced confession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Just now, mjmooney said: Well, pedantically, you're right - he didn't say it was racist. But I can't put any other interpretation on his clearly shamefaced confession. Pedantry is good. But this really isn't pedantry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GarethRDR Posted February 6, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 6, 2019 Meanwhile, outside Liam Neeson's house... 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 22 minutes ago, peterms said: Did he? I didn't see that. I saw him regretting the incident and accepting responsibility, but haven't seen him acknowledging it as racist. Could you point me towards where he's quoted as doing so? Reading the original interview again, he only seemed to regret his vengefulness and how he almost killed a man. Nothing about his racism. I missed this quote the first time, which I find telling: Quote “But my immediate reaction was ... did she know who it was? No. What colour were they? She said it was a black person. To be fair he later clarified this in another interview: Quote "If she would have said an Irish or a Scot or a Brit or a Lithuanian, I know it would have had the same effect." Which I find hard to believe, not least because of the logistics of finding a "Lithuanian" or whatever, but also because as quoted above he asked "what colour" and not "where were they from". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 See, again I actually find that 'clarification' part of the problem for me. It suggests a black person is not a Scot, or Irish or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted February 6, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted February 6, 2019 I think the miming of quotes around "black bastard" was significant. But everybody seems to have taken sides, and each is trying to interpret this short interview to suit his/her own opinion. Remarkably similar to the Tyrone Mings 'stamp' incident, in fact. In neither case is it possible to determine precisely what was intended, so the arguments are ultimately futile. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 11 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: See, again I actually find that 'clarification' part of the problem for me. It suggests a black person is not a Scot, or Irish or whatever. I think he was trying to save face, and mucked it up even further. It was a simple question posed to him of "Would you have had the same reaction if your friend had said it was a white man?". All he had to say was yes, but instead he inadvertently gave some insight into how much his views on race have advanced in 30 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 46 minutes ago, mjmooney said: But everybody seems to have taken sides, and each is trying to interpret this short interview to suit his/her own opinion. Thought I was in the Brexit thread reading about Tusk for a moment But put me down for a L size “I agree with MJ t-shirt “ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 10 hours ago, chrisp65 said: you can be black and Irish God himself 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Im sure from his movies that Neeson hates Albanians more than amy other people Not sure is any black albanians 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted February 7, 2019 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted February 7, 2019 I don't really see how the intention to murder a random, innocent person because they happened to be the same race as a completely different person who committed an atrocity is anything other than the very definition of racism. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, Keyblade said: Reading the original interview again, he only seemed to regret his vengefulness and how he almost killed a man. Nothing about his racism. I missed this quote the first time, which I find telling: To be fair he later clarified this in another interview: Which I find hard to believe, not least because of the logistics of finding a "Lithuanian" or whatever, but also because as quoted above he asked "what colour" and not "where were they from". What you talking about he found his daughters kidnappers in a different country just by having a particular set of skills, I am sure he can find some Lithuanians if he wanted to. Edited February 7, 2019 by Demitri_C 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 7, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted February 7, 2019 Adding to the topic... Gucci withdraws jumper after 'blackface' backlash Quote Luxury fashion brand Gucci has withdrawn a woollen jumper from sale after the item was criticised for "resembling blackface." The black "balaclava jumper" covered the lower half of the face and featured a red cut-out around the mouth. The item prompted a backlash on social media by users who claimed the design was offensive. In a statement, Gucci apologised for any offence caused and said it would be removed from sale. The brand said it would turn the incident "into a powerful learning moment for the Gucci team" and was committed to increasing diversity. Have to admit when I first saw the picture (on twitter) and didn't know the blackface complaints, I didn't make the connection. But once you see it you can't unsee it! Not sure this one was intentional but can absolutely see why it's being pulled. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 The size of those glasses. My first ever pair of NHS glasses when I was a kid were about that size. It's funny how things go in and out of fashion, a bit like blackface. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 46 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Not sure this one was intentional wasn't it Gucci who had (white) models wearing turbans and Hijibs that outraged a few people on twitter the other year ? it would suggest that they deliberately court controversy or that fashion designers really are on planet La La and the real world has passed them by ( obviously this also includes football kit designers ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 16 hours ago, Dick said: Racism can **** off. The only hatred I can understand is hating bald people. Bald people are the worst kind of human. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 11 hours ago, Keyblade said: Reading the original interview again, he only seemed to regret his vengefulness and how he almost killed a man. Nothing about his racism. I missed this quote the first time, which I find telling: To be fair he later clarified this in another interview: Which I find hard to believe, not least because of the logistics of finding a "Lithuanian" or whatever, but also because as quoted above he asked "what colour" and not "where were they from". That's selective defensism, don't you think? You can believe he can go after a black bloke, but you don't believe he could go after a Lithuanian? Hmm. I can't believe it's still being talked about.. Well actually I can, but the arguments here don't hold any water. Essentially we're arguing over "how do you identify someone?", in which case "black bloke" just becomes an adjective, just as much as "Hispanic, tanned skinned, dark haired, ginger, white, Asian" - or whatever that woman could have said to him about the person who raped her.. It just so happened to be a black person, that was what she described the person who raped her as. It's unfortunate she was raped at all, it's unfortunate she was raped by a black person, it's pretty unfortunate that anyone is raped. Did he really say, upon hearing a close friend was recently raped "WHAT COLOUR?!" maybe, maybe not. If he did, then it's racist - he's admitted it - he's a **** idiot, it's sullied his reputation and he has to live with it. Everyone else is immaterial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 7, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted February 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: That's selective defensism, don't you think? You can believe he can go after a black bloke, but you don't believe he could go after a Lithuanian? Hmm. I can't believe it's still being talked about.. Well actually I can, but the arguments here don't hold any water. Essentially we're arguing over "how do you identify someone?", in which case "black bloke" just becomes an adjective, just as much as "Hispanic, tanned skinned, dark haired, ginger, white, Asian" - or whatever that woman could have said to him about the person who raped her.. It just so happened to be a black person, that was what she described the person who raped her as. It's unfortunate she was raped at all, it's unfortunate she was raped by a black person, it's pretty unfortunate that anyone is raped. Did he really say, upon hearing a close friend was recently raped "WHAT COLOUR?!" maybe, maybe not. If he did, then it's racist - he's admitted it - he's a **** idiot, it's sullied his reputation and he has to live with it. Everyone else is immaterial. The person being black isn't really the point. If he'd done the same to a Lithuanian or Irish or Indian or chinese or whatever, it's still racist. As I said above, going out to kill someone of the same race as a completely unrelated person who has done something terrible is definitely racist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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