Racism Part two

[Follyfoot]

12 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Cambridge has loads of academics with abhorrent views to people on any part of the political spectrum. 

Are you talking about outside speakers that have been protested against and no platformed? 

Jordan Peterson‘s invitation to lecture that was rescinded by Cambridge University a Couple of years ago because of some comments he made regarding gender

The psychologist accused Cambridge of being "unprofessional" after he found out he was being stripped of his fellowship as a result of complaints from the student union. Peterson, a psychology professor at the University of Toronto who has been widely deemed as a life guru, made headlines with his YouTube videos a few years ago after criticising Canadian legislation stipulating the use of gender-neutral pronouns in relation to people who do not strictly identify with binary categories like men or women. He argued at the time that such legislation infringed upon his personal right to free speech.

Many have knocked Peterson's conservative position, as the professor has argued for enforced monogamy, the view that men are victims of gender discrimination, etc.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Follyfoot

[ml1dch]

26 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

Jordan Peterson‘s invitation to lecture that was rescinded by Cambridge University a Couple of years ago because of some comments he made regarding gender

On the other hand, Jordan Peterson is a massive Representative for Wellingborough. 

So, *shrugs*

Edited June 26, 2020 by ml1dch

[PaulC]

14 minutes ago, blandy said:

But let's assume the radio caller was right, and it was at least partially fuelled by black persons feeling they suffer from racial inequality, wouldn't the way to stop that be to stop police treating them unequally? to encourage racial equality?

People need a purpose in life, austerity has created a lot of these problems. Right now the police can only do their jobs and treat every crime on merit and need to be supported by this weak govt. Long term if there is inequality in the way police treat black people then it needs to be dealt with. There needs to be more diversity in the police force not the dismantling of it. 

[Follyfoot]

5 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

On the other hand, Jordan Peters is a massive Representative for Wellingborough. 

So, *shrugs*

Which part of right to free speech that others might find controversial do you not get? 

Edited June 26, 2020 by Follyfoot

[Sam-AVFC]

3 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

Which part of right to free speech that others might find controversial do you not get? 

Now we're back to private institutions being able to make decisions v government restrictions on speech.  

Peterson's job offer was rescinded. Someone more knowledgeable on employment law will be able to say whether it would have been harder to do if he was already employed. 

Let's also not forget we aren't actually America and don't make grandiose claims about free speech. 

[Follyfoot]

6 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Now we're back to private institutions being able to make decisions v government restrictions on speech.  

Peterson's job offer was rescinded. Someone more knowledgeable on employment law will be able to say whether it would have been harder to do if he was already employed. 

Let's also not forget we aren't actually America and don't make grandiose claims about free speech. 

I agree, however Cambridge University champions itself as the Bastian of free speech, I provided  an example of  where they have been, not thus suggesting political bias With regard to Dr Gopal

Edited June 26, 2020 by Follyfoot

[snowychap]

7 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Now we're back to private institutions being able to make decisions v government restrictions on speech.  

Peterson's job offer was rescinded. Someone more knowledgeable on employment law will be able to say whether it would have been harder to do if he was already employed. 

Let's also not forget we aren't actually America and don't make grandiose claims about free speech. 

It was a short term visiting fellowship for which he applied. The initial offer (in response to his application) was rescinded.

I don't think a visiting fellowship is an offer of employment.

Edited June 26, 2020 by snowychap

[snowychap]

3 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

I agree, however Cambridge University champions itself as the Bastian of free speech, I provided examples where they have not thus suggesting political bias With regard to Dr Gopal

You provided one example of a faculty at Cambridge rescinding an offer of a short term visiting fellowship.

[ml1dch]

16 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

Which part of right to free speech that others might find controversial do you not get? 

Who is having their free speech curtailed? "Free speech" and "offer of a temporary fellowship" are not the same thing. 

[MaVilla]

37 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

Jordan Peterson‘s invitation to lecture that was rescinded by Cambridge University a Couple of years ago because of some comments he made regarding gender

The psychologist accused Cambridge of being "unprofessional" after he found out he was being stripped of his fellowship as a result of complaints from the student union. Peterson, a psychology professor at the University of Toronto who has been widely deemed as a life guru, made headlines with his YouTube videos a few years ago after criticising Canadian legislation stipulating the use of gender-neutral pronouns in relation to people who do not strictly identify with binary categories like men or women. He argued at the time that such legislation infringed upon his personal right to free speech.

Many have knocked Peterson's conservative position, as the professor has argued for enforced monogamy, the view that men are victims of gender discrimination, etc.

Peterson is a seriously intelligent guy, and tbh i dont think his views are ultra right wing, i consider his views fairly centrist (maybe centre right), also most of his views are evidence based, either statistical or scientific, or based in psychological research.

I think anyone who thinks his views are extremist, likely has actual extremist views themselves.

I would encourage anyone to listen to his lectures, and form your own opinion.

de-platforming anyone is stupid, all views need to be heard, over time the stupid ideas will get weeded out, the genuine risk to a fair and equal society is not allowing open dialogue and discussion, regardless of whether you agree with it or not.

I think one issue these days is a lot of people dont know how to debate and discuss, and more than that arent open to considering opposing views, its quite dangerous.

A good phrase i heard, was a good and balanced person should be able to hold two opposing views in their head at the same time, and weigh them both up, picking what they consider pros and cons from each, reviewing them in a balanced way.

If i think back to when i was a teenager/early twenties, the views i hold now are very different, if i hadnt allowed myself to listen, consider and take on other peoples views and arguments, and locked myself in to a fanatical position where everyone is wrong and i was right, and others shouldnt be allowed to speak, i would have gone badly in the wrong direction probably.

Edited June 26, 2020 by MaVilla

[snowychap]

It's gone wildly off toppic but as we've diverted, temporarily, on to Peterson (a long read):

The Intellectual We Deserve

Quote

Jordan Peterson’s popularity is the sign of a deeply impoverished political and intellectual landscape…

...

Jordan Peterson appears very profound and has convinced many people to take him seriously. Yet he has almost nothing of value to say. This should be obvious to anyone who has spent even a few moments critically examining his writings and speeches, which are comically befuddled, pompous, and ignorant. They are half nonsense, half banality. In a reasonable world, Peterson would be seen as the kind of tedious crackpot that one hopes not to get seated next to on a train.

...

This much should be obvious from even a cursory reading of him: If Jordan Peterson is the most influential intellectual in the Western world, the Western world has lost its damn mind. And since Jordan Peterson does indeed have a good claim to being the most influential intellectual in the Western world, we need to think seriously about what has gone wrong. What have we done to end up with this man? His success is our failure, and while it’s easy to scoff at him, it’s more important to inquire into how we got to this point. He is a symptom. He shows a culture bereft of ideas, a politics without inspiration or principle. Jordan Peterson may not be the intellectual we want. But he is probably the intellectual we deserve.

 

[Follyfoot]

27 minutes ago, snowychap said:

You provided one example of a faculty at Cambridge rescinding an offer of a short term visiting fellowship.

Due to complaints from the student union regarding his comments which as far as I’m aware is FreeSpeech?

[Follyfoot]

8 minutes ago, snowychap said:

It's gone wildly off toppic but as we've diverted, temporarily, on to Peterson (a long read):

The Intellectual We Deserve

 

How onearth has it gone wildly off topic. Dr Gopal made some extremely controversial that could be deemed racial comments, But nobody had commented on before me on this thread and was supported in her right to free speech regardless of controversial content by Cambridge University who in the past have not given that freedom speech to other academics. I would say that is bang on the topic of the thread,  Peterson being the example nothing more

Edited June 26, 2020 by Follyfoot

[bickster]

6 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

Due to complaints from the student union regarding his comments which as far as I’m aware is FreeSpeech?

This has absolutely nothing to do with free speech.

Peterson is still able to say exactly what he wants, no-one has curtailed that right.

A faculty of Cambridge University has decided they don't want to be associated with what he says.

It is their right and solely their right alone to make this decision

[Follyfoot]

7 minutes ago, bickster said:

This has absolutely nothing to do with free speech.

Peterson is still able to say exactly what he wants, no-one has curtailed that right.

A faculty of Cambridge University has decided they don't want to be associated with what he says.

It is their right and solely their right alone to make this decision

But not at Cambridge University, eh  it is their decision and and right to support the comments by Dr Gopal but do not proclaim yourself up as the Bastian of free speech and then deny it to somebody you had invited to speak at the University because they don’t like what he says. 

Edited June 26, 2020 by Follyfoot

[bickster]

1 hour ago, PaulC said:

Why do you persist in asking questions about this, getting the answers to your questions, then going round in circles and starting again?

I guess I still think maybe there are some open minds on this thread. 

There are only a few closed minds on this thread

1 hour ago, PaulC said:

If this had happened in a predominantly white area, would you be asking the same questions over and over? Would that have been about race?

No obviously not unless the edl or the like are involved

So this problem is your perception, not based on fact and is probably showing some bias

2 hours ago, PaulC said:

Why do you seemingly want this to be about race?

I don't really care to be honest I just don't want to see a complete break down of law and order and disrespect for our police force in this country. 

If you don't care, why keep mentioning it? No-one in this thread wants a complete breakdown in Law and Order (as far as I'm aware) but keeping insisting that this is about race when it demonstrably isn't is a complete disconect with not wanting a breakdown in law and order.

[bickster]

11 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

But not at Cambridge University, eh  it is their decision and and right to support the comments by Dr Gopal but do not proclaim yourself up as the Bastian of free speech and then deny it to somebody you had invited to speak at the University because they don’t like what he says

If Cambridge University are happy to be associated with the comments by Dr Gopal it is again their choice. Sorry I'm not up to speed on what this person said but it is irrelevant here. Cambridge University will be judged by what they will and won't associated with. But these are their decisions and their right

It has absolutely nothing to do with setting yourself up as a Bastion of Free Speech.

It's very much an ultra right of the Tory Party meme, this "No platforming at Universities" thing.

Quite frankly its bollocks and a rallying call for arseholes with few braincells

You can't have freedom of speech if you don't allow institutions the freedom to not allow people of their choice not to speak. Freedoms have to work in all directions otherwise its not a freedom

 

[NurembergVillan]

Everyone should have a platform to say whatever they want, anywhere.

Nobody should get chucked out of Villa Park for calling Neil Taylor a "useless p**i".

Don't bar anyone from pubs unless it's for fighting or doing gear.

Simon Cowell should be allowed to call X Factor contestants "hopeless words removed".

Actually, I don't mind that last one, but you get the point.

[Follyfoot]

9 minutes ago, bickster said:

If Cambridge University are happy to be associated with the comments by Dr Gopal it is again their choice. Sorry I'm not up to speed on what this person said but it is irrelevant here. Cambridge University will be judged by what they will and won't associated with. But these are their decisions and their right

It has absolutely nothing to do with setting yourself up as a Bastion of Free Speech.

It's very much an ultra right of the Tory Party meme, this "No platforming at Universities" thing.

Quite frankly its bollocks and a rallying call for arseholes with few braincells

You can't have freedom of speech if you don't allow institutions the freedom to not allow people of their choice not to speak. Freedoms have to work in all directions otherwise its not a freedom

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cambridge University

 

@Cambridge_Uni

·

24 Jun

 

The University defends the right of its academics to express their own lawful opinions which others might find controversial 

 

Was this the case with Noah Carl? 

Edited June 26, 2020 by Follyfoot

[Stevo985]

24 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

But not at Cambridge University, eh  it is their decision and and right to support the comments by Dr Gopal but do not proclaim yourself up as the Bastian of free speech and then deny it to somebody you had invited to speak at the University because they don’t like what he says. 

They haven't

Edited June 26, 2020 by Stevo985