blandy Posted June 26, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 26, 2020 4 hours ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: The gist is this, imagine a totally non raciest and approachable Police force in London or Atlanta or wherever. There is an estate or project where the crime rate is through the roof, robberies and drugs and all that. Something happens (Murder or something big). The Police are no better off than they are now in terms of being able to help clean up the estate. Everyone knows who did it & no one will tell the police. They have to do stop and search and kick doors off (Piss off the no criminal people). Back to square one and so we start all over again. It's all talking about ideals, but I'd say that Policing works with the consent of the population (in this case of an estate). At the moment your notional estate does not consent to the Policing because they perceive either that the police are themselves are rotten/criminal/racist/bad/whatever or that consenting to the policing is worse than not consenting to it (fear of reprisals/ingrained culture of ACOB). But if you change to a totally "good" Police force, then they can gain the consent of the community (obv. other stuff needs to happen too, but this is all necessarily simplistic). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted June 26, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 26, 2020 Interesting reading the comments regarding Dr Gopal Regarding White lives don’t matter and abolish whiteness in the last couple of days. Rather than debating what context it was meant, I’m interested in Cambridge’s university stance that she has freedom of speech regardless of how controversial the subject matter is. I agree with their stance but it has to go both spectrums to be valid does it not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 26, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: it has to go both spectrums to be valid does it not. Sure. Obviously she's upset a load of white racists, which is sad for them, and frightening for her, with the death threats etc. Your question suggests you might not think it currently does "go to both spectrums" and so there's actually a lack of validity - do I read that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post snowychap Posted June 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 26, 2020 1 hour ago, PaulC said: It’s an attack on our police force which they think is fundamentally racist. Who is the 'we' and who the 'they'? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 26, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 26, 2020 1 hour ago, PaulC said: I believe what happened the other night is to do with race. It’s an attack on our police force which they think is fundamentally racist. The bbc and the rest of the media are turning a blind eye to it all. There's several layers in there. The police broke up an illegal party and were attacked. The Met Police are widely considered to be institutionally racist. Even the Gov't inquiry into the Met found they were (though that was a good while back, and they've changed a lot since then). The Police were seemingly (only the attackers can know why they did it) not attacked because they are thought to be racist, but because they broke up a load of youths partying in breach of lockdown and holding an illegal party. The attackers were of various backgrounds white, Black etc. No blind eye has been turned to it. It's been in all the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 13 minutes ago, blandy said: There's several layers in there. The police broke up an illegal party and were attacked. The Met Police are widely considered to be institutionally racist. Even the Gov't inquiry into the Met found they were (though that was a good while back, and they've changed a lot since then). The Police were seemingly (only the attackers can know why they did it) not attacked because they are thought to be racist, but because they broke up a load of youths partying in breach of lockdown and holding an illegal party. The attackers were of various backgrounds white, Black etc. No blind eye has been turned to it. It's been in all the media. On talk radio this morning it said a young man who was involved in it was reported as saying it was because of racial inequality. The bbc have not reported this, they don't want to make it into a race thing. The media are trying to downplay it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted June 26, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 26, 2020 2 hours ago, PaulC said: The bbc and the rest of the media are turning a blind eye to it all. Quote Twenty-two police officers have been injured during clashes at an illegal street party involving an estimated 400 people in south London https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53176472 Quote Extra police have been put on the streets in London to target illegal street parties and raves following violence in Brixton on Wednesday. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/25/violence-at-street-party-brixton-leaves-more-than-police-injured Quote At least 22 police officers were injured and emergency vehicles were damaged in London overnight, after a street party -- illegal under Covid-19 rules -- descended into violence. https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/25/uk/brixton-police-party-clashes-scli-gbr-intl/index.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, PaulC said: On talk radio this morning it said a young man who was involved in it was reported as saying it was because of racial inequality. The bbc have not reported this, they don't want to make it into a race thing. The media are trying to downplay it. It was because of the gameshow crackerjack. One voice saying something is so, doesnt make it so. Edited June 26, 2020 by Seat68 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 Whether its just about racial discrimination or not. Its been massively downplayed. The headlines in the newspapers was all about people going to beaches which I thought was quite legal not the attack on our police force with 22 injured and police cars smashed up. We are heading for a disaster with no law and order if this continues and it will unless the Govt and Police take much tougher action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 15 minutes ago, PaulC said: Whether its just about racial discrimination or not. Its been massively downplayed. The headlines in the newspapers was all about people going to beaches which I thought was quite legal not the attack on our police force with 22 injured and police cars smashed up. We are heading for a disaster with no law and order if this continues and it will unless the Govt and Police take much tougher action. I'm honestly a bit unsure what you want from this story at this point. The reason you aren't reading more about it is because media companies don't think there's anything to say. This isn't a conspiracy - they are perfectly happy to 'go long' on stories if they are going to keep driving clicks to the website. Commissioning editors have obviously decided that there basically isn't any more to the story than is already in the public domain. What do you think they are missing? If you were a commissioning editor, at a media company, what would you be asking people to investigate and report on about this story? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 26, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 26, 2020 40 minutes ago, PaulC said: On talk radio this morning it said a young man who was involved in it was reported as saying it was because of racial inequality. ....The media are trying to downplay it. It was reported on the radio that it was reported.... That's not downplaying it, that's literally "reporting" it. It's all over the BBC. They report that a resident said Quote Malcolm, who has lived in the Notting Hill area for 10 years, told the BBC scores of people had gathered at the corner of Portobello Road and Blenheim Crescent from about 21:00 BST. "After midnight it seemed to switch into more violent behaviour," he said. He added it had been "pretty terrible round here" for the last few nights with "anti-social behaviour, alcohol, drugs and a huge amount of violence and disruption". and another report on the BBC says Quote People who'd been at the event tell me it all started peacefully with a barbeque and music, but it "got out of hand" when people from other areas flooded in. While condemning the violence, young people told me there is "no relationship" with the police and the community officers they knew don't come around anymore. I met a mum who said she's been campaigning for a new youth centre. "The kids don't have anywhere to go", she said. Ken Marsh, chairman of the Metropolitan Police Federation, said nearly 30 of his colleagues were "walking wounded". "No-one expects this level of violence and hostility to just erupt at the speed it does towards police. It's horrendous," he said. Like I said before, we cannot know what was in the minds of the rioters, only they can, but it seems like there's dislike of the Police (no surprise there) and for some it may be because of Police racism, or perceived racism. But it's not been downplayed from everything I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 26, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 26, 2020 25 minutes ago, PaulC said: The headlines in the newspapers was all about people going to beaches Newspaper headlines for this morning's papers were all written before the trouble happened. It didn't happen till gone midnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 I don't know why everything is a conspiracy. I've also seen a hell of a lot more reporting on Liverpool winning the league than more allegations of corruption that have surfaced in the last few days. As HV alludes to, the sad reality is they only care about money generated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 26, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 26, 2020 3 hours ago, PaulC said: I believe what happened the other night is to do with race Then you are wrong 1 hour ago, PaulC said: The bbc have not reported this, they don't want to make it into a race thing. That's because it isn't 52 minutes ago, PaulC said: Whether its just about racial discrimination or not. Its been massively downplayed. No it hasn't. Why do you persist in asking questions about this, getting the answers to your questions, then going round in circles and starting again If this had happened in a predominantly white area, would you be asking the same questions over and over? Would that have been about race? Why do you seemingly want this to be about race? I'll let you draw you own conclusions 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 7 hours ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: I will try an post in here but it usually goes wrong. Hopefully the BLM and general move towards a better environment for everyone gets traction and starts to change things in the institutions and workplaces, If that happened it would be great but it needs an equal movement from society in general to make it last an continue forever. The gist is this, imagine a totally non raciest and approachable Police force in London or Atlanta or wherever. There is an estate or project where the crime rate is through the roof, robberies and drugs and all that. Something happens (Murder or something big). The Police are no better off than they are now in terms of being able to help clean up the estate. Everyone knows who did it & no one will tell the police. They have to do stop and search and kick doors off (Piss off the no criminal people). Back to square one and so we start all over again. The fact that people wont talk to the police to help clean up the estate and lift it out of crime is odd. Surely helping the police make the neighbourhood better for kids to grow up in is vital but it seems not. Everyone on estates know who does the crime but would rather the crime and the damage it does to their community than help the police. It seems people like crack dealers and heroin dealers but not help when it is offered and then moan the estate is rubbish and the police / council do nothing. Police in my city have a ~30% murder clearance rate. They're like fish out of the water here, and they still have a $1bn budget and are still killing unarmed civilians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 42 minutes ago, bickster said: Why do you persist in asking questions about this, getting the answers to your questions, then going round in circles and starting again? I guess I still think maybe there are some open minds on this thread. If this had happened in a predominantly white area, would you be asking the same questions over and over? Would that have been about race? No obviously not unless the edl or the like are involved Why do you seemingly want this to be about race? I don't really care to be honest I just don't want to see a complete break down of law and order and disrespect for our police force in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted June 26, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 26, 2020 4 hours ago, blandy said: Sure. Obviously she's upset a load of white racists, which is sad for them, and frightening for her, with the death threats etc. Your question suggests you might not think it currently does "go to both spectrums" and so there's actually a lack of validity - do I read that right? To avoid confusion, the same support of free speech given by the University in support of Dr Gopal has not been consistent in the past whilst dealing with other 'academics' who have made comments 'which others might find controversial' suggesting a potential political bias 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 26, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 26, 2020 19 minutes ago, PaulC said: I don't really care to be honest I just don't want to see a complete break down of law and order and disrespect for our police force in this country. The thing is, surely that the motivation for these attacks on the rozzers is something you don't know, and nor do I. You heard someone on the radio say it was reported that one person said their motivation was "racial inequality". Other part of the media have multiple people (locals) saying it was people from out of the area turning up for a scrap, loads of booze and drugs. We have seen video that the (some of) rioters were different colours. It doesn't look like it was a specific race riot of black people attacking the police. So anyone wanting law and order and respect for the police would surely want a) scrotes not to undertake illegal parties and then attack the police when they turn up to break up the party, or for other scrotes to turn up for a ruckus. Not knowing whether it was about race, but reaching a conclusion either way seems like an individual thing. But let's assume the radio caller was right, and it was at least partially fuelled by black persons feeling they suffer from racial inequality, wouldn't the way to stop that be to stop police treating them unequally? to encourage racial equality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 26, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: To avoid confusion, the same support of free speech given by the University in support of Dr Gopal has not been consistent in the past whilst dealing with other 'academics' who have made comments 'which others might find controversial' suggesting a potential political bias Ta. Such as...(genuinely)? I was thinking about the tube who flew that flag over the footy the other day and got sacked. I don't think him being sacked from his job for it was right. He might be (is) a bell end, but if people were sacked for that no one would be left working. It just leaves someone without work, their kids worse off and so on. How does that help anyone? I don't like identity politics, really. If someone's a follower of Corbyn/Johnson/JK Rowling/Trump/Biden/whoever the notion that they have to be punished and hounded for it, that they are somehow (based only on their liking of whichever person) somehow bad faith and to be hounded is wrong to me. Probably the trans rights issue is the worst area for it, but veganism, BLM and statues and all the rest - those issues all seem to bring out the worst in people, when what's needed is the best of people. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 17 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: To avoid confusion, the same support of free speech given by the University in support of Dr Gopal has not been consistent in the past whilst dealing with other 'academics' who have made comments 'which others might find controversial' suggesting a potential political bias Cambridge has loads of academics with abhorrent views to people on any part of the political spectrum. Are you talking about outside speakers that have been protested against and no platformed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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