Frédéric Guilbert

[MotoMkali]

8 hours ago, villa89 said:

Is he one of the covid deaths? Forgot he existed...he should have gone in the summer rather than staying and trying to fight for his place. Cash is miles better than him and Elmo is okay as cover. 

Cash has been bad in 4 of our last 5 games. I don't think we can say he is better. He isn't helping attack down the right just sitting back playing passes. I thought he was supposed to be a winger before so where is his crossing and dribbling ability. My issue with cash is the exact same issue with elmo. It doesn't matter how good at crossing a player is if he doesn't create space for your wingers and forwards with the overlap. 

[Dave-R]

3 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

Cash has been bad in 4 of our last 5 games. I don't think we can say he is better. He isn't helping attack down the right just sitting back playing passes. I thought he was supposed to be a winger before so where is his crossing and dribbling ability. My issue with cash is the exact same issue with elmo. It doesn't matter how good at crossing a player is if he doesn't create space for your wingers and forwards with the overlap. 

I'd say your very wrong about Cash not helping attack down the right, he is very good and taking the ball upto and sometimes even into the final third.

Gilbert should be though and I say this because he is a very good player we should be training and learning at utilising his speed as hes fast. I could imagine and we should be utilising his speed, he would make an excellent rotational player for Cash and it does my nut in that we are not playing him and the poor guy is in Limbo at Villa.

I feel very sorry for Gilbert because hes very capable of doing the job.

[VillaChris]

Will surely go back on loan to France in January.

[M_Afro]

I like Fred but Cash is twice the player and he will only get better. Fred is currently our number 3 right back in my view.

[lexicon]

I'd disagree that Cash has been a problem in an attacking sense. For me, his problem comes from his defensive awareness and decision making. He was converted from a winger IIRC, so he's still learning and there's nothing to say that he can't improve - but right now he's the weakest defender of the back 4 (since Targett bulked up and changed his approach to the game).

[hippo]

We brought Freddie when we were 13th in the championship. He was in and out of the side last season. In the close season on of our first moves was to spend £16m on a player in his position. Elmo has been sub or played when cash has been tested.

During the summer there was one weak loan rumour which came to nothing. 

Odds look very much against him making it in the prem - whatever anyone's personal rating of him - it would seem it's not shared by those in the game.

 

[VillaChris]

11 hours ago, hippo said:

We brought Freddie when we were 13th in the championship. He was in and out of the side last season. In the close season on of our first moves was to spend £16m on a player in his position. Elmo has been sub or played when cash has been tested.

During the summer there was one weak loan rumour which came to nothing. 

Odds look very much against him making it in the prem - whatever anyone's personal rating of him - it would seem it's not shared by those in the game.

 

If he had a serious shot still here he'd be making the bench imo.

Yes AEM is there but let's remember if anything happened to Mings or Konsa then he'd be coming on at CB. We have two defenders on bench usually so Freddie could still get on there if he was still in favour.

[hippo]

11 hours ago, VillaChris said:

If he had a serious shot still here he'd be making the bench imo.

Yes AEM is there but let's remember if anything happened to Mings or Konsa then he'd be coming on at CB. We have two defenders on bench usually so Freddie could still get on there if he was still in favour.

Agreed - an injury crisis and he gets in.

My overall point though - is that those close to Freddie in the game seem not to rate him at this level. I think that's pretty hard to ignore.

[sheepyvillian]

For me, as much as I love Freddie , aside from Jack, Cash has been our best player.

[sne]

I'd have Martinez, Grealish, Konsa, Luiz, Barkley ahead of Cash and put him about level with Mings, McGinn, Trez, Targett and Watkins so far this season.

Not great, not terrible, still young and new to the position and still massive room and hopefully potential to improve.

[Tom13]

You have to remember that the player Cash has to link up with on the right is Trez...not the most intelligent of players.

[villalad21]

Nah. Still not for me

Cash is better. Elmo is fine for backup

[MrBlack]

Elmo has the backup spot as he can change a game more than Guilbert can. The subs bench is for those purposes, rather than to cover for injury which is a comparatively unusual event. 

I reckon Fred might even be preferred if Cash was a long term injury, with Elmo still being on the bench to change things if needed.

Useful squad player to have, good enough in my view to be a direct alternative to cash without weakening us significantly, but if he can't oust him from the first team and isn't happy bring  understudy I'd hope the club won't stand in the way of him finding somewhere else. 

[villalad21]

24 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

Elmo has the backup spot as he can change a game more than Guilbert can. The subs bench is for those purposes, rather than to cover for injury which is a comparatively unusual event. 

I reckon Fred might even be preferred if Cash was a long term injury, with Elmo still being on the bench to change things if needed.

Useful squad player to have, good enough in my view to be a direct alternative to cash without weakening us significantly, but if he can't oust him from the first team and isn't happy bring  understudy I'd hope the club won't stand in the way of him finding somewhere else. 

He was never a Smith signing in the first place, was he?

Though he was a Suso signing

[Eastie]

I’d prefer to see guilbert at right back with cash playing wide on the right ahead of him instead of trez - cash has played right wing at forest and would surely offer more than trez 

[MrBlack]

8 minutes ago, Eastie said:

I’d prefer to see guilbert at right back with cash playing wide on the right ahead of him instead of trez - cash has played right wing at forest and would surely offer more than trez 

I wouldnt be against this. Especially if we're looking to swap Trez out after his recent poor performance. Would be harsh as other players have performed as bad recently and retained their spots, but if they're not comfortable throwing Traore in from the start then this would be a better defensive minded option. 

Or could put Traore on the middle in place of Ross and drop Conor, and push Mcginn further back to where he's suited.

[TRO]

On 07/12/2020 at 17:57, Eastie said:

I’d prefer to see guilbert at right back with cash playing wide on the right ahead of him instead of trez - cash has played right wing at forest and would surely offer more than trez 

interesting punt.

[TRO]

none of them are a Wilfred Bouma are they?

its great having attacking full backs as a priority and yes its the modern game......Liverpool probably have the best......but who is then defending?

2 centre backs and who else?

its like going back in time 2-3-5, tongue in cheek of course.

Edited December 11, 2020 by TRO

[barry'sboots]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

its great having attacking full backs as a priority and yes its the modern game......Liverpool probably have the best......but who is then defending?

2 centre backs and who else?

That's why Klopp plays three defensive CM'ers I guess.

Full back is a balancing game and depends on how you link in with others.  As has been discussed in several threads on VT, our midfield is pretty attack oriented and therefore we need our full backs to be a bit more defensive.

[barry'sboots]

I can't believe people on here prefer Elmo to Guilbert.

Elmo showed his level when he came on the other week (I can't remember whether it was Wet Spam or Brighton) and Jack, I seem to remember, played a fantastic through ball.  Elmo's first touch was harder than my shot!!