Stratvillan Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 If hes as good as everyone reckons he should bring in 10 m in the summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 11 hours ago, Stratvillan said: If hes as good as everyone reckons he should bring in 10 m in the summer Knock the zero of the end and you might be closer ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 I think we have to remember we bought him in the January in the last season we were in the Championship so not necessarily was seen as a premier league player. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icouldtelltheworld Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 I like Guilbert and think he's more than capable as back up for Cash, but get the impression he would've wanted to leave for first team football either way. You can make cases for and against both Elmo and Guilbert really, they both have their weaknesses. I can fully understand why Elmo was seen as the better option as back up, not least because of his seniority in the squad - I felt last year that if we'd had a few more senior pros like him in the squad we'd never have needed to stay up on the last day. There's his versatility too, elmo can fill in at CB, RW and could probably be chucked up front too if we had a serious injury crisis. Gilbert seems a committed professional and I'm sure he'll have a great career, but I'd be very surprised if he ever ends up first choice for a top half prem team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 This is a stick i beat Matt Targett with as well. A fullback should never. Never have to rely on sliding tackles to get them out of trouble. If you do it's either because of poor positioning or a lack of pace. Watching Luke Shaw yesterday was a revelation. The perfect fullback imo. Shaw got everything. Pace, power, positional awareness, technicality. He looked like the player he were under Pochettino at Southampton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, villalad21 said: This is a stick i beat Matt Targett with as well. A fullback should never. Never have to rely on sliding tackles to get them out of trouble. If you do it's either because of poor positioning or a lack of pace. Watching Luke Shaw yesterday was a revelation. The perfect fullback imo. Shaw got everything. Pace, power, positional awareness, technicality. He looked like the player he were under Pochettino at Southampton. I wouldnt disagree. But let's not confuse a sliding tackle with a sliding block to stop a cross, which Targett does alot very adeptly. Show his man down the line and stop the cross. It's the job of a full back and Targett does it very well. He rarely slide tackles, he slide blocks. Full backs are usually up against the quickest players and it's not a slight on a player to be beaten for pace, but if said player can still stop the cross then his job is done. Targett hasn't been beaten many times this season, not sure why you had to drag him into this. Guilbert, yes, would get caught out alot and need to slide tackle. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jono62 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Look at this rubbish player relying on slide tackles to get them out of trouble https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-4gw7mmE0c 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Jono62 said: Look at this rubbish player relying on slide tackles to get them out of trouble https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-4gw7mmE0c Is that the same man who said this? “If I have to make a tackle then I have already made a mistake.” Edited March 8, 2021 by sparrow1988 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 He won't be here next season no matter what. We have about 19 coaches and 27 assistants to the head coach and nobody rates him obviously. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Surely sliding tackles for a full back are fine as they generally go out for a throw in. If a centre back has to resort to it then the ball goes loose in the centre of the pitch and it's anyone's ball, with the tackler sat on his arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTTERDAM1982 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Luke Shaw is ggood at going forward but is not a good defender, Tbh i wouldn't swap him for Targett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 5 hours ago, hippo said: Knock the zero of the end and you might be closer ! I think you're being harsh. We've just paid £15m for Sanson and everybody is sitting here saying there is real value in the French Ligue 1. Freddie was the best player for Caen, apparently, and he has now gone in and appears to be ripping it up with Strasbourg. As I said before, we always expect these foreign players to come in and hit the ground running but it can take time ... look at Luiz/Nakamba etc., even Wes might look a player when he gets back having had a period to settle in to the UK/PL. I think we should at least be looking to get our money back but personally I would be keeping him as back up and investing in LB, another CM and three attackers (a "9" and 2 wide players). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 9 hours ago, villalad21 said: This is a stick i beat Matt Targett with as well. A fullback should never. Never have to rely on sliding tackles to get them out of trouble. If you do it's either because of poor positioning or a lack of pace. Watching Luke Shaw yesterday was a revelation. The perfect fullback imo. Shaw got everything. Pace, power, positional awareness, technicality. He looked like the player he were under Pochettino at Southampton. Guilbert is too reliant on slide tackles, yes. But it’s not true to say a player has always made a mistake if he has to make a slide tackle. Sometimes the mistake is by someone else on the team, leaving him unavoidably exposed, or maybe he’s just up against an unbelievably quick winger. All the great full backs regularly put in big slide tackles as a core part of their game. In Targett’s case, it’s a slight lack of pace that forces him to slide tackle sometimes. He does it at the right moments. In Guilbert’s case, I think he does like a blood and thunder tackle... a reducer... and you’re right that this isn’t sensible defending. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 8 hours ago, sparrow1988 said: Is that the same man who said this? “If I have to make a tackle then I have already made a mistake.” For most of his career he played as a cb with great ball winning cbs and cdms. He got the ball after it trickled back from. A challenge. It is completely different when you are actually playing as a full back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il_serpente Posted March 9, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted March 9, 2021 Although I had high hopes for him as an attacking fb with his energy and desire, I was disappointed in his ability to do anything useful with the ball once he got down the field. His defending was better than expected and ended up being his biggest asset. I think Cash was brought in primarily as an improvement in attack, where he's clearly been a level above Guilbert, but his defending has also been top notch. I'm not convinced Smith has given up on Freddie. As I recall, Guilbert started most games when he was fit last season. There was no point keeping 3 rb's when only 2 would ever be in the match squad and someone would be unhappy. Freddie wanted to play and Elmo is happy being backup. As someone posted earlier, we could get someone to take Freddie on loan and pay most of his salary and keep him happy with game time, while Elmo would be hard to offload either on loan or permanently. So Freddie was allowed to go and Elmo stayed. Elmo is gone in the summer. Freddie will be back. i'm guessing Smith will assess him and Kessler and decide which will be backup to Cash for next season. If Freddie, Kessler would probably go on loan. If Kessler, Freddie will be sold if we can get a good price, or possibly loaned. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 8 hours ago, MotoMkali said: For most of his career he played as a cb with great ball winning cbs and cdms. He got the ball after it trickled back from. A challenge. It is completely different when you are actually playing as a full back. some of the stuff you read here. And also he was predominantly a left back to be fair. Played over 100 more games at LB than CB. And of his games at CB a good few of the came on the left of a 3 like with Italy around the early 2000‘s. Anyway back on topic. Guilbert relies on slide tackling a bit too much to get him out of trouble normally because he is too far out of position. In comparison to Targett, who always seems to have his tackles under control and actually very rarely “slides” and his positioning has been fantastic this season. I still wouldn’t write Guilbert off because of this. He was new to country, the league, the club, and if he and the coaches can work to improve his positioning and understanding of the game then he could become useful for us. If the coaches decide he’s not for them then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, MotoMkali said: For most of his career he played as a cb with great ball winning cbs and cdms. He got the ball after it trickled back from. A challenge. It is completely different when you are actually playing as a full back. Some fullbacks goes to ground more so than others. I happen to prefer my fullbacks to stay on their feet. Edited March 9, 2021 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Guilbert in my opinion would be a cheap quick replacement for Elmo when he leaves. Not going out and spending money on a LB would help us to put that money elsewhere into the team. Guilbert is very quick and we need some speed, we would have two players who can play LB very rapidly in Cash and Guilbert. Sure Guilbert plays like Hutton where he attacks so much and if a mistake happens he's racing back to correct the mistake but look at any of our defenders who go into the final third now, that happens and they have to chase the counter back to our defence, at least Guilbert is actually fast enough to catch most players on the counter. As a sub against a tired team he could be valuable at catching countering players if he was fresh on. Used right Guilbert could be a very good sub indeed, he just needs to to let go of some bad traits he's picked up. I will give the lad something he's very aggressive at times and we need that in players as he chased that ball down and yes it's earnt him yellows and if I'm not mistake a red card with us but he just needs to get his timing of slide tackles down to perfection. At one point I wasn't sure of Kinda but look at him now, Wasn't sure in Hause but we're all questioning on why he wasn't kept in the team since his last performances. I think give Guilbert game time and if Smith can take a couple of things out of his game all while adding a few things, I do certainly thing he could compete for Cash's place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 6 hours ago, sparrow1988 said: some of the stuff you read here. And also he was predominantly a left back to be fair. Played over 100 more games at LB than CB. And of his games at CB a good few of the came on the left of a 3 like with Italy around the early 2000‘s. Anyway back on topic. Guilbert relies on slide tackling a bit too much to get him out of trouble normally because he is too far out of position. In comparison to Targett, who always seems to have his tackles under control and actually very rarely “slides” and his positioning has been fantastic this season. I still wouldn’t write Guilbert off because of this. He was new to country, the league, the club, and if he and the coaches can work to improve his positioning and understanding of the game then he could become useful for us. If the coaches decide he’s not for them then so be it. As far as I'm aware he made that quote towards the end of his career (actually the earliest references I can find of it are in 2017 so you know him being 8 years retired) And I thought he pretty much exclusively played CB from the year 2000 on which is when he cemented himself as the greatest defender of all time. With his first ever team of the year appearance in 2002/2003. Etc. Guilbert tends to use sliding tackles when he is coming back from. The overlap and wasn't already in position this is fine as long as he doesn't go through someone's back with them which for us he hasn't and he tends to be very good at going round and nabbing the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 On 08/03/2021 at 17:26, barry'sboots said: I think you're being harsh. We've just paid £15m for Sanson and everybody is sitting here saying there is real value in the French Ligue 1. Freddie was the best player for Caen, apparently, and he has now gone in and appears to be ripping it up with Strasbourg. As I said before, we always expect these foreign players to come in and hit the ground running but it can take time ... look at Luiz/Nakamba etc., even Wes might look a player when he gets back having had a period to settle in to the UK/PL. I think we should at least be looking to get our money back but personally I would be keeping him as back up and investing in LB, another CM and three attackers (a "9" and 2 wide players). Show me the buyers. If someone comes in and tops the £6m we paid for him great. But there wasn't much interest this summer. TBH I think another loan is on the cards for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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