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Demitri_C

Tyrone Mings

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2 hours ago, LondonVillian said:

Deliberate handball is always a yellow - I'm more angry at the first yellow which was laughable at best

Laughable as it was given purely on the appeal of Rotherham players, the ref didn't see anything, just reacted to their reactions.........

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Was the Rotherham player booked for his handball? I dont recall him getting a booking

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At least these past couple games have shown he is actually human and can make mistakes. Was pretty much faultless until the last 2 games.

He's going to be a huge miss on Saturday. 

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35 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Was the Rotherham player booked for his handball? I dont recall him getting a booking

yes

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the most laughable double yellow card i have ever seen. 1st one he is elbowed in the neck and doesnt even touch the Rotherham player who made a reaction and the 2nd one yes its probably a penalty but its nowhere near deliberate and Hourihane has probably even got in his eyeline

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6 hours ago, mikeyp102 said:

The ref didn't give a freekick to Mings though, so how could the opposition get booked?

From the highlights I've seen, Mings was kicked, ref missed it, opposition got the ball, Mings retaliated by kicking opposition, ref saw it, ref booked Mings. It's fair enough. Mings didn't argue the booking. I would think that Smith was upset that we didn't get the first free kick, not about the awarding of the card.

The last couple of games, Mings has got wound up by the opposition, may be a chink in his armour, and something that he needs to keep under control.

That's the point though isn't it? We're talking about a poor refereeing decision aren't we? Most poor refereeing decisions are down to the ref "not seeing it". You can't say it was a good decision because the ref missed what happened, what if he hadn't seen the handball that won us the 2nd penalty and didn't give it? Would that be "fair enough" as well because he didn't see it?

Most referees aren't corrupt, they get decisions wrong because shit happens sometimes, but that doesn't make it a fair or correct decision.

His game management was utterly appalling, I mean sure, you can give a soft yellow card resulting in a red, but you don't have to, especially when the 1st yellow was also soft. How often do we see a "if he wasn't already on a yellow that's a booking all day long, but it's just a final warning this time"? He could have given a yellow card to the chap that hacked down Grealish for our first penalty, it probably would have been a correct decision, but he didn't did he? He could have given a red to the guy that accidently trod on Grealishs foot while he was on the floor, it would have been soft, but he could have given it. He could have given a red card to the guy that went in 2 footed on Adomah, again would have been soft, but he could have given it

He could have completely ignored DS walking 2 foot out of his technical area to place the ball on the line for a throw in, given that managers leave their technical area constantly without repercussions unless it's really bad, but he didn't, ran straight over there and whipped out the card 

 

These decisions could all have been considered correct by the letter of the law had he given them the other way, but he chose not to and resulted in a first half where all of those 50/50s went against us, hence understandable anger towards the ref

 

If you could appeal yellow cards, we wouldn't be able to appeal either of Mings', but if yellow cards could be issued retrospectively he wouldn't have ended up with either (assuming they weren't given on the night) IMO 

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18 minutes ago, weedman said:

That's the point though isn't it? We're talking about a poor refereeing decision aren't we? Most poor refereeing decisions are down to the ref "not seeing it". You can't say it was a good decision because the ref missed what happened, what if he hadn't seen the handball that won us the 2nd penalty and didn't give it? Would that be "fair enough" as well because he didn't see it?

Most referees aren't corrupt, they get decisions wrong because shit happens sometimes, but that doesn't make it a fair or correct decision.

His game management was utterly appalling, I mean sure, you can give a soft yellow card resulting in a red, but you don't have to, especially when the 1st yellow was also soft. How often do we see a "if he wasn't already on a yellow that's a booking all day long, but it's just a final warning this time"? He could have given a yellow card to the chap that hacked down Grealish for our first penalty, it probably would have been a correct decision, but he didn't did he? He could have given a red to the guy that accidently trod on Grealishs foot while he was on the floor, it would have been soft, but he could have given it. He could have given a red card to the guy that went in 2 footed on Adomah, again would have been soft, but he could have given it

He could have completely ignored DS walking 2 foot out of his technical area to place the ball on the line for a throw in, given that managers leave their technical area constantly without repercussions unless it's really bad, but he didn't, ran straight over there and whipped out the card 

 

These decisions could all have been considered correct by the letter of the law had he given them the other way, but he chose not to and resulted in a first half where all of those 50/50s went against us, hence understandable anger towards the ref

 

If you could appeal yellow cards, we wouldn't be able to appeal either of Mings', but if yellow cards could be issued retrospectively he wouldn't have ended up with either (assuming they weren't given on the night) IMO 

Funny, i thought you were talking about whether Mings should have been booked...

He lashed out after not getting a free kick he, and I, felt he deserved - definite yellow.

The ball does strike his arm, and were the same happen in their box, i would expect a penalty.  Unfortunately, the rules state that a handball is a yellow card - so both fair yellows and fully justified and in accordance with the rules.

Take off the claret specs, and objectively, its 2 yellows.  Can't appeal, as you can only appeal straight reds.  I have no complaints with those 2 decision - plenty of others - but not those 2.

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13 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said:

Funny, i thought you were talking about whether Mings should have been booked...

He lashed out after not getting a free kick he, and I, felt he deserved - definite yellow.

The ball does strike his arm, and were the same happen in their box, i would expect a penalty.  Unfortunately, the rules state that a handball is a yellow card - so both fair yellows and fully justified and in accordance with the rules.

Take off the claret specs, and objectively, its 2 yellows.  Can't appeal, as you can only appeal straight reds.  I have no complaints with those 2 decision - plenty of others - but not those 2.

Handball isn't a caution , Deliberate handball is. There has to be an intent to handle for a card to be given , attempting to chest the ball and it hitting the arm isnt a caution if we go by the letter of the law.

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14 minutes ago, mattyvilla said:

Handball isn't a caution , Deliberate handball is. There has to be an intent to handle for a card to be given , attempting to chest the ball and it hitting the arm isnt a caution if we go by the letter of the law.

He was never going to be able to get his chest on that from his position. It's deliberate as it is hand to ball i.e his arm moves towards the ball. It's not ball to hand where it gets whacked at you and you don't have time to know anything about it. 

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22 hours ago, mattyvilla said:

Handball isn't a caution , Deliberate handball is. There has to be an intent to handle for a card to be given , attempting to chest the ball and it hitting the arm isnt a caution if we go by the letter of the law.

Read the regs handbook again, and be very precise when looking at the language.

It effectively says its only a free kick for handball if there is intent in the referees opinion, so by default, if he gives a free for handball, he's also saying he believes there was intent and therefore has to book the player.

Just to be clear, i'm not saying i agree with the rules, but in this incident, the rules were correctly applied.

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I love Mings, and he has been excellent for us. However, with his sending off midweek I don’t think the social media team should be lauding him and showing him celebrating and all that, as it could have cost us greatly. 

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9 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said:

Read the regs handbook again, and be very precise when looking at the language.

It effectively says its only a free kick for handball if there is intent in the referees opinion, so by default, if he gives a free for handball, he's also saying he believes there was intent and therefore has to book the player.

Just to be clear, i'm not saying i agree with the rules, but in this incident, the rules were correctly applied.

I take my info from bbc's deliberate handball guide , i'm not clever enough to provide a link , so certainly can't find it in the rulebook 😀

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They have changed the law for handball recently. Removing the need for it to be deliberate. 

It's why we are seeing some strange decisions in the champions League. Now if you make your body bigger with your arms and it's hits arm its a penalty regardless of intent.

Although think may be start of next season in England, but uefa have started already

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Am I dreaming?.....but wasn't there a time when only the lower arm counted as hand ball and the upper arm from the elbow was legal?

ps... Is it 2 games he is out for?

Edited by TRO

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22 minutes ago, TRO said:

Am I dreaming?.....but wasn't there a time when only the lower arm counted as hand ball and the upper arm from the elbow was legal?

ps... Is it 2 games he is out for?

Nurse!!!

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13 hours ago, villan-scott said:

I love Mings, and he has been excellent for us. However, with his sending off midweek I don’t think the social media team should be lauding him and showing him celebrating and all that, as it could have cost us greatly. 

But the flip side is it shows how much he cares and how much winning in Villa colours means to him, which makes us all love him more.

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34 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

Also surprised this wasn’t appealed.

You can’t appeal yellows... even if you could I doubt the club would’ve, there is an argument for both yellows. Therefore an appeal would’ve likely extended the ban. 

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you can only appeal yellow cards on mistaken identity

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2 hours ago, TRO said:

Am I dreaming?.....but wasn't there a time when only the lower arm counted as hand ball and the upper arm from the elbow was legal?

ps... Is it 2 games he is out for?

He only misses todays game. 

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