Tyrone Mings

[Peter Griffin]

43 minutes ago, TRO said:

Maybe, they are, and the dynamics of the game dictate...who knows.

It does seem to me, its when he is out of position, disaster can strike.

It sounds the kind of thing that Danks may be looking at

[Stevo985]

19 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Shots on target also include the wasted long shots that goes straight to the keepers hands and was a lot of them last season 

This is why xG (or in this case xGA) is a far better stat to use than shots on target

[Dave-R]

2 hours ago, lexicon said:

And leave the team under pressure? 

He's a leader who takes charge - he's not going to sit there when another team member is floundering, it's not in his nature and it's what makes him a very good defender. 

He doesn't hide, he's not afraid of responsibility and he holds his hands up when he makes a mistake. 

We're lucky to have him. 

Sorry Dave, I think you're talking nonsense. You talk about how he can't do everything on his own and needs somebody near him to help - that's called a defensive partnership. That's literally what they do. You don't think Van Dijk and Maguire have players next to them too to do that exact job? 

Somebody who makes as many mistakes as Mings has done since joining, the only answer would be to put Nakamba or Luiz around him as much as possible. Makes sense and is logical or continue with the same problems in having Mings F*** up. It's not talking nonsense when Mings should be concentrating more and lapses. Its highlighting why he's doing it and finding solutions but sorry I forgot nobody can criticise around here. Certain people get all up in the air about this type of talk and go off on the defensive and play whatever anyone says down.

I certainly didn't say he couldn't do anything on his Own so stop putting words in my mouth, I said it's like Mings needs constant Guarding. More so just someone like Nakamba or Luiz needs to be more aware that the mistakes are more than likely to come through him being the last man and there is absolutely nothing wrong with having a player around him in his area of the field ready if it does happen. It's like a fracture in a defence, a weakspot you highlight it and you secure it abit more, it's not saying it's entirely weak but adding a different type of strength to it or around it could make the defence that much stronger. Doing nothing and continuing on and leaving things as they are will just lead to more goals against us and more mistakes by Mings.

At this level sometimes you have to change game plans around, Mings obviously has a tough time dealing with tricky players, so the best thing in my eyes is to add some speed near Mings when attacks start coming in and shut the tricky players down fast. 

Mings is hardly anywhere near the level of those two player mentioned so I don't know why you even brought them into it. They're not playing for us and were not talking about them its Mings were on about here and they are just in a different class I'm afraid.

 

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

Somebody who makes as many mistakes as Mings has done since joining, the only answer would be to put Nakamba or Luiz around him as much as possible. Makes sense and is logical or continue with the same problems in having Mings F*** up. It's not talking nonsense when Mings should be concentrating more and lapses. Its highlighting why he's doing it and finding solutions but sorry I forgot nobody can criticise around here. Certain people get all up in the air about this type of talk and go off on the defensive and play whatever anyone says down.

I certainly didn't say he couldn't do anything on his Own so stop putting words in my mouth, I said it's like Mings needs constant Guarding. More so just someone like Nakamba or Luiz needs to be more aware that the mistakes are more than likely to come through him being the last man and there is absolutely nothing wrong with having a player around him in his area of the field ready if it does happen. It's like a fracture in a defence, a weakspot you highlight it and you secure it abit more, it's not saying it's entirely weak but adding a different type of strength to it or around it could make the defence that much stronger. Doing nothing and continuing on and leaving things as they are will just lead to more goals against us and more mistakes by Mings.

At this level sometimes you have to change game plans around, Mings obviously has a tough time dealing with tricky players, so the best thing in my eyes is to add some speed near Mings when attacks start coming in and shut the tricky players down fast. 

Mings is hardly anywhere near the level of those two player mentioned so I don't know why you even brought them into it. They're not playing for us and were not talking about them its Mings were on about here and they are just in a different class I'm afraid.

 

It just seems funny to me having Rice and Phillips in front of him for England, he seem to make less mistakes.

I agree with you about tricky players, players with quick feet appear to bamboozle Ty....but I think positioning is more to do with it.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

It sounds the kind of thing that Danks may be looking at

hope so.

[TRO]

I am happy when Ty is playing....but these errors are hard to legislate for.....it seems to negate all his hard work.

[lexicon]

47 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

Somebody who makes as many mistakes as Mings has done since joining, the only answer would be to put Nakamba or Luiz around him as much as possible. Makes sense and is logical or continue with the same problems in having Mings F*** up. It's not talking nonsense when Mings should be concentrating more and lapses. Its highlighting why he's doing it and finding solutions but sorry I forgot nobody can criticise around here. Certain people get all up in the air about this type of talk and go off on the defensive and play whatever anyone says down.

I certainly didn't say he couldn't do anything on his Own so stop putting words in my mouth, I said it's like Mings needs constant Guarding. More so just someone like Nakamba or Luiz needs to be more aware that the mistakes are more than likely to come through him being the last man and there is absolutely nothing wrong with having a player around him in his area of the field ready if it does happen. It's like a fracture in a defence, a weakspot you highlight it and you secure it abit more, it's not saying it's entirely weak but adding a different type of strength to it or around it could make the defence that much stronger. Doing nothing and continuing on and leaving things as they are will just lead to more goals against us and more mistakes by Mings.

At this level sometimes you have to change game plans around, Mings obviously has a tough time dealing with tricky players, so the best thing in my eyes is to add some speed near Mings when attacks start coming in and shut the tricky players down fast. 

Mings is hardly anywhere near the level of those two player mentioned so I don't know why you even brought them into it. They're not playing for us and were not talking about them its Mings were on about here and they are just in a different class I'm afraid.

 

I just think you're talking nonsense, sorry. 

The good work that Mings does absolutely outweighs the mistakes he sometimes makes and we'd be a hell of a lot worse off without him. Given that we've seen an inferior defender in Ben White go for 50m, it's a very good job the club doesn't think the way you do and try to replace him, because we're highly unlikely to find someone who is better than he is overall. 

[avfc1982am]

I think Mings is biggest failing is knowing when to jockey and when to tackle. Most of his mishaps seem to happen when he has disappeared from the CB position and has gone wide left. Not just the incident last Sat but iirc he did the same v Zaha and got caught out. I'm sure there is another instance doing exactly the same thing last season?! I think the bottom line is it shouldn't be to difficult to remedy the rashness in his game that crops up from time to time. 

[avfc1982am]

27 minutes ago, lexicon said:

I just think you're talking nonsense, sorry. 

The good work that Mings does absolutely outweighs the mistakes he sometimes makes and we'd be a hell of a lot worse off without him. Given that we've seen an inferior defender in Ben White go for 50m, it's a very good job the club doesn't think the way you do and try to replace him, because we're highly unlikely to find someone who is better than he is overall. 

I agree. You also can't start trying to compensate for lapses that may not occur weakening yourself in other areas. If were all honest, there are several players that lapse concentration or effort creating far more problems than Mings does.

I do think though that as good as he is, the idea there isn't better out there is wrong. There is always better, you just have to find it. Thankfully there is no need to though.  

[Talldarkandransome]

I like Mings, always have done. Great attitude and he's human, hence he makes mistakes. 

He's now the captain which hopefully will have a positive effect on his game. He certainly shouldn't be slated for making mistakes, there isn't one player who has ever existed who doesn't make mistakes, it's just ones made in defence are more noticeable and costly usually

[Peter Griffin]

4 minutes ago, Talldarkandransome said:

He's now the captain which hopefully will have a positive effect on his game. He certainly shouldn't be slated for making mistakes, there isn't one player who has ever existed who doesn't make mistakes, it's just ones made in defence are more noticeable and costly usually

Exactly and that is why we need to upgrade Mings and get someone that makes fewer mistakes so we can push on for a European qualification

[Talldarkandransome]

Just now, Peter Griffin said:

Exactly and that is why we need to upgrade Mings and get someone that makes fewer mistakes so we can push on for a European qualification

John Stones makes mistakes, Slab Head makes mistakes. Every defender in the world makes mistakes, paying £80m for an upgrade doesn't reduce the mistakes. Scoring 5% of the chances we had against Chelsea would have won that game, Mings mistake had nothing to do with it

[Peter Griffin]

Just now, Talldarkandransome said:

John Stones makes mistakes, Slab Head makes mistakes. Every defender in the world makes mistakes, paying £80m for an upgrade doesn't reduce the mistakes. Scoring 5% of the chances we had against Chelsea would have won that game, Mings mistake had nothing to do with it

I would say that there is a direct relationship between money spent on a defender and a reduction in the amount of mistakes made. Yes there will always be some exceptions but the better players make fewer mistakes and these players tend to cost more money.

 

[Talldarkandransome]

Just now, Peter Griffin said:

I would say that there is a direct relationship between money spent on a defender and a reduction in the amount of mistakes made. Yes there will always be some exceptions but the better players make fewer mistakes and these players tend to cost more money.

 

Yes this is probably true up to a point, I just don't think we should be trying to upgrade another captain so soon after the last one.

The positives outweigh the negatives for me

[Rightdm00]

1 minute ago, Talldarkandransome said:

John Stones makes mistakes, Slab Head makes mistakes. Every defender in the world makes mistakes, paying £80m for an upgrade doesn't reduce the mistakes. Scoring 5% of the chances we had against Chelsea would have won that game, Mings mistake had nothing to do with it

THANK YOU!

Mings mistake didn't even cost us because we never converted a single chance we generated. You want to make Top 6 you have to score goals.  Love Ollie but he missed a chance that any PL striker has to bury. Our attack failed us vs Chelsea. We were never in it once we went 1 goal down. 

[Talldarkandransome]

1 minute ago, Rightdm00 said:

THANK YOU!

Mings mistake didn't even cost us because we never converted a single chance we generated. You want to make Top 6 you have to score goals.  Love Ollie but he missed a chance that any PL striker has to bury. Our attack failed us vs Chelsea. We were never in it once we went 1 goal down. 

Whilst I totally agree with this, I still find it really difficult to criticise our attack at the moment cos I love watching them play. It's the best attacking I've seen in a long long time. Better finishing is all that is needed for me

[Peter Griffin]

Just now, Talldarkandransome said:

Yes this is probably true up to a point, I just don't think we should be trying to upgrade another captain so soon after the last one.

 

The upgrading captain doesn''t really bother me too much to be honest, it doesn't exactly mean too much at a club imo. I wouldn't like losing his leadership skills on the pitch but these are secondary to footballing skills to me but a replacement would need to be a vocal leader type person and not a quiet get on with the job type person

[fruitvilla]

3 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I would say that there is a direct relationship between money spent on a defender and a reduction in the amount of mistakes made.

While this is likely true, I want to know what is this relationship? Linear, some sort of exponent? And when you have that can you provide a correlation coefficient, so we can evaluate your "direct relationship" and see if upgrading Mings will provide "value for money"?

[Talldarkandransome]

2 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

The upgrading captain doesn''t really bother me too much to be honest, it doesn't exactly mean too much at a club imo. I wouldn't like losing his leadership skills on the pitch but these are secondary to footballing skills to me but a replacement would need to be a vocal leader type person and not a quiet get on with the job type person

You've just described Mings there, he's vocal and he's always involved with pulling players apart if they are kicking off. His leadership for me is more important than overall quality. Konsa will learn from him and will eventually take over as captain IMO. 

[Keyblade]

Who can we even buy that would be a clear upgrade on Mings that would even want to come to Villa?