Aston_Villan4 Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Really? I think he gets away very lightly a lot of the time personally and has done for the last 12 months because we all love him from the promotion and because he is clearly a really good guy. In fact I think he gets away with a huge amount compared to almost anyone else in team. As for the nature of the criticism, granted a lot of it isn't quantified when people say he has played poorly but it isn't nonsense. But I'll happily quantify some areas I think are valid. He goes wondering and gets caught out of position. He doesn't dominate the back four and boss it as he should as the senior defender in the back four. He quite frequently is careless in possession of the ball either in terms of getting caught on it or in his passing. I think his concentration can be poor and I think his head quite frequently goes after an error and another follows. I think drifts wider than he should at times. Now he quite clearly has plenty of positives about his game and at times is great for us but what I find weird is that so many seem to never highlight his failings, errors or poor performances. Now I find that weird when other players are hammered. He was really poor today, he was poor against Southampton, poor against Leeds and there have been other examples. He needs to raise his game, stop chewing gum and be a little more focussed because ever since his England call up last season I think his form has been patchy. You had me until the highlighting his poor performances/ errors part. It’s pretty well documented that he has never been able to shake his major mental lapses during games. It’s also pretty clear that he’s been very hot and very cold since his first England call up and plenty of people have said as much. The problem with anyone on any message board is lack of objective criticism. A lot of comments come across as hyperbole, stemming from frustration and it’s annoying to read constantly. That goes for any player. At least, that’s what I take away from @Indigos comment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 21, 2020 Moderator Share Posted November 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, WooJung said: Let's be fair though, Konsa deserves as much stick for the first goal. What in earth was he doing there, so far up the pitch and so far to the left? Why do we have three players within 2 square meters all going for the ball? Shambolic defending, absolutely disgusting. Mings deserves his portion of blame, but he surely isn't alone. No, Nonsa is trying to win the ball Mings is ball watching and lets a man run off him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooJung Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 1 minute ago, TrentVilla said: No, Nonsa is trying to win the ball Mings is ball watching and lets a man run off him. The way I see it he has no business trying to win the ball in that position. He's the right centre half. There were mings and Luiz there already. If he stays in his position then he can run back to try to contrast welbeck's run. The back line as a whole has no business staying that high up the pitch. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aston_Villan4 Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, WooJung said: The way I see it he has no business trying to win the ball in that position. He's the right centre half. There were mings and Luiz there already. If he stays in his position then he can run back to try to contrast welbeck's run. The back line as a whole has no business staying that high up the pitch. You think they would’ve recognized that after what we did to Liverpool’s ultra high line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 36 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: I go back to mid to late 80's, I don't think he would be in my top 10. Since I've been a villa fan late 87 onwards I'd put the following ahead of Mings at CB- The obvious one, Ugo, Stan, The beak, Laursen, Mellberg, Teale , Keown, Dunne,, Alpay, Konsa, Vlaar, Bouma, even Zat Knight was consistent and dependable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, TrentVilla said: Really? I think he gets away very lightly a lot of the time personally and has done for the last 12 months because we all love him from the promotion and because he is clearly a really good guy. In fact I think he gets away with a huge amount compared to almost anyone else in team. As for the nature of the criticism, granted a lot of it isn't quantified when people say he has played poorly but it isn't nonsense. But I'll happily quantify some areas I think are valid. He goes wondering and gets caught out of position. He doesn't dominate the back four and boss it as he should as the senior defender in the back four. He quite frequently is careless in possession of the ball either in terms of getting caught on it or in his passing. I think his concentration can be poor and I think his head quite frequently goes after an error and another follows. I think drifts wider than he should at times. Now he quite clearly has plenty of positives about his game and at times is great for us but what I find weird is that so many seem to never highlight his failings, errors or poor performances. Now I find that weird when other players are hammered. He was really poor today, he was poor against Southampton, poor against Leeds and there have been other examples. He needs to raise his game, stop chewing gum and be a little more focussed because ever since his England call up last season I think his form has been patchy. I better clarified my point above but in short I think stuff like him chewing gum, "thinking he's better than he is" and the utter nonsense that in fairness you don't really see on here of "his politics distracting him" are examples of this. I also don't agree at all that he gets away with a lot, definitely not on this forum. Ultimately this is a bit fruitless because I'm evidently going to have a different take to you, but every time we concede a goal this thread is flooded with posts while - and I caveat this by saying I'm a fan of his - Konsa largely gets a free pass in comparison. He's at much at fault for the goal today - more so if anything given his insane positioning - and just for the sake of an example there was a point around the 85th minute where he was dispossessed trying to dribble out of his own box and needed rescuing by Cash, which is the kind of thing Mings would get crucified for. Not to labour the point but we'd have also probably been relegated due to an absolute howler from him had Antonio not subsequently blazed it over on the final day. To be honest I think the polar opposite from your view is the case and Mings is largely held to a higher standard because of his status in the squad due to the promotion season/his fee/personality. But that's just how I see it. As I said I'm not one for getting on players' backs so I don't want the above to be taken as me digging Konsa out, just that I see Mings get a lot of stick that at the very least is a bit unbalanced. None of which is to say he's above valid criticism, we saw from as early as the famous Rotherham game that even in the Championship he had the odd error in him but that's just reflective of the type of player he is and always has been for us, not since England call ups or whatever else. Edited November 22, 2020 by Indigo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aston_Villan4 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Indigo said: I better clarified my point above but in short I think stuff like him chewing gum, "thinking he's better than he is" and the utter nonsense that in fairness you don't really see on here of "his politics distracting him" are examples of this. I also don't agree at all that he gets away with a lot, definitely not on this forum. Ultimately this is a bit fruitless because I'm evidently going to have a different take to you, but every time we concede a goal this thread is flooded with posts while - and I caveat this by saying I'm a fan of his - Konsa largely gets a free pass in comparison. He's at much at fault for the goal today - more so if anything given his insane positioning - and just for the sake of an example there was a point around the 85th minute where he was dispossessed trying to dribble out of his own box and needed rescuing by Cash, which is the kind of thing Mings would get crucified for. Not to labour the point but we'd have also probably been relegated due to an absolute howler from him had Antonio not subsequently blazed it over on the final day. To be honest I think the polar opposite from your view is the case and Mings is largely held to a higher standard because of his status in the squad due to the promotion season/his fee/personality. But that's just how I see it. As I said I'm not one for getting on players' backs so I don't want the above to be taken as me digging Konsa out, just that I see Mings get a lot of stick that at the very least is a bit unbalanced. None of which is to say he's above valid criticism, we saw from as early as the famous Rotherham game that even in the Championship he had the odd error in him but that's just reflective of the type of player he is and always has been for us, not since England call ups or whatever else. Spot on. I wish I had a more eloquent response but this is identical to how I see it. Cheers. Edited November 22, 2020 by Aston_Villan4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 I like Mings. But he's overrated and needs to improve if Villa are to improve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Drives me up the wall at times. He can keep playing like this every week and remarkably some fans will blame Smith. It's funny to watch play out. Needs to sort himself out. Almost all his errors and cock-ups are due to him swanning about thinking he's better than he is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 22, 2020 Moderator Share Posted November 22, 2020 7 hours ago, Indigo said: I better clarified my point above but in short I think stuff like him chewing gum, "thinking he's better than he is" and the utter nonsense that in fairness you don't really see on here of "his politics distracting him" are examples of this. I also don't agree at all that he gets away with a lot, definitely not on this forum. Ultimately this is a bit fruitless because I'm evidently going to have a different take to you, but every time we concede a goal this thread is flooded with posts while - and I caveat this by saying I'm a fan of his - Konsa largely gets a free pass in comparison. He's at much at fault for the goal today - more so if anything given his insane positioning - and just for the sake of an example there was a point around the 85th minute where he was dispossessed trying to dribble out of his own box and needed rescuing by Cash, which is the kind of thing Mings would get crucified for. Not to labour the point but we'd have also probably been relegated due to an absolute howler from him had Antonio not subsequently blazed it over on the final day. To be honest I think the polar opposite from your view is the case and Mings is largely held to a higher standard because of his status in the squad due to the promotion season/his fee/personality. But that's just how I see it. As I said I'm not one for getting on players' backs so I don't want the above to be taken as me digging Konsa out, just that I see Mings get a lot of stick that at the very least is a bit unbalanced. None of which is to say he's above valid criticism, we saw from as early as the famous Rotherham game that even in the Championship he had the odd error in him but that's just reflective of the type of player he is and always has been for us, not since England call ups or whatever else. Obviously I disagree with almost all of this but that’s football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Mings has the physical attributes but mentally he is laxidaisical and too inconsistent. He needs to be more aggressive in 1-1 face offs - when an attacker stands him up he gives too much space. Salah's second goal was the perfect illustration of what I mean. He could have been closer and nicked the ball away. Could be a top top defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Like I said big club big game top side he is on it, focused, defend first. We play other sides and we concede for fun. It is no coincidence when our leader our big buy CB thi is he can stroll about like he is Pirlo. The ego on this guy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachboys1 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 8 hours ago, Tomaszk said: Drives me up the wall at times. He can keep playing like this every week and remarkably some fans will blame Smith. It's funny to watch play out. Needs to sort himself out. Almost all his errors and cock-ups are due to him swanning about thinking he's better than he is. yep im a fan of mings but does have to much arrogance in his game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
est1874 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 12 hours ago, maqroll said: I like Mings. But he's overrated and needs to improve if Villa are to improve. This sums it up well for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 I think his casual, languid style makes things look a lot worse when things go wrong. On the other hand when he is playing well he looks brilliant. I'd still say as the best left-footed English centre half he is worthy of a place in the national team. He seems a pretty humble character to me so I wouldn't accuse him of thinking he is better than he is. I actually think he would be a brilliant left back if he ever went back to playing there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 5 hours ago, TrentVilla said: Obviously I disagree with almost all of this but that’s football. Indeed, and I wouldn't expect to convince anyone who indulges in such criticisms that they're weird (the criticisms that is, not anyone personally). All I can say is that even to objectively go off stats there really isn't much at all between Mings and Konsa, so in that sense it just seems lop-sided to have Mings slated for everything from his ability to his mindset while Konsa is lauded by comparison. The only thing I can't accept at all is this "thinks he's better than he is since England" notion, he literally plays the same way he did when he first joined and makes the same errors, only now they happen with greater frequency as he's playing at a higher standard. That's indicative of the levels in football, not flaws in his character. Great start to the season either way, and whatever the case I think goals we've conceded in these games - particularly the first yesterday - are more so the results of naive defensive tactics than individual faults. It's no surprise that they've each performed better in away games when our game plan has been more pragmatic. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 (edited) I've thought he thinks he's better than he is long before his England debut tbh. He's good enough for where we are, he was one of our better players last season, and he'd slot in well at pretty much any mid table PL club. If we want to do better than that, I don't think he's good enough, but we're some way off having a first 11 that's good enough that he is the one we need to replace. The thing that frustrates me is that he doesn't seem to learn. He makes the same kind of mistakes over and over. When he focuses, he's a very good defender. I suspect if he could cut those errors out, he wouldn't be playing for us. Edited November 22, 2020 by Davkaus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 28 minutes ago, Davkaus said: I've thought he thinks he's better than he is long before his England debut tbh. He's good enough for where we are, he was one of our better players last season, and he'd slot in well at pretty much any mid table PL club. If we want to do better than that, I don't think he's good enough, but we're some way off having a first 11 that's good enough that he is the one we need to replace. The thing that frustrates me is that he doesn't seem to learn. He makes the same kind of mistakes over and over. When he focuses, he's a very good defender. I suspect if he could could those errors out, he wouldn't be playing for us. Fair comments. Well he's going to have to cut out the mistakes and improve if he wants to retain his England place long term. That should be motivation enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Willard Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Good player, think he is overrated a tad. Thinks he is better than he is at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 16 hours ago, WooJung said: Let's be fair though, Konsa deserves as much stick for the first goal. What in earth was he doing there, so far up the pitch and so far to the left? Why do we have three players within 2 square meters all going for the ball? Shambolic defending, absolutely disgusting. Mings deserves his portion of blame, but he surely isn't alone. How does this even happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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