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Tyrone Mings

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38 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Tyrone keeps putting himself in a position to wildly lump it by refusing various pass options, short and long, so he can dribble the ball around for while.

It'll be great when he stops doing it, can't wait. The team and him will both better for it.

Watch it again, and it's very harsh to blame Mings for their first goal. Douglas and Grealish have dropped him in it a bit there. There were no easy options for him.

I agree he dithers on the ball too long sometimes, but the Utd mistake was more of a team mistake, starting with a heavy touch from Douglas, then Grealish waits too long to play it back to Mings, and then there isn't enough movement around Mings to give him an outball. Just bad play all round.

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2 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Watch it again, and it's very harsh to blame Mings for their first goal. Douglas and Grealish have dropped him in it a bit there. There were no easy options for him.

I agree he dithers on the ball too long sometimes, but the Utd mistake was more of a team mistake, starting with a heavy touch from Douglas, then Grealish waits too long to play it back to Mings, and then there isn't enough movement around Mings to give him an outball. Just bad play all round.

I agree that it wasn't Jack's best decision either to take the ball back and play it to Tyrone.

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For me he has become a little too relaxed and is making errors that unfortunately have led to chances and goals for the opposition.  But I agree that he is being asked to play that way. It’s the way smith wants the ball moved, to try and pick a pass starting an attack. His good play still far outweighs the bad. 

I also like him at cb, having a left footed right footed partnership certainly between the cbs has its advantages. However, if Targett does get injured I think he would do a job down the left flank. I’d certainly think he’d get a fair few assists crossing the ball in and would probably score more as he could attack the back post from Guilberts crosses. Against the likes of Burnley it would also help when defending the crosses 

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3 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Watch it again, and it's very harsh to blame Mings for their first goal.

I watched it again. He had all the time in the world. All he had to do was to lump it forward.

But he is just waiting and waiting and waiting and inevitable get's under pressure which causes the mistake.

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4 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Tyrone keeps putting himself in a position to wildly lump it by refusing various pass options, short and long, so he can dribble the ball around for while.

It'll be great when he stops doing it, can't wait. The team and him will both better for it.

You don't know that they didn't ask him to hold the ball and suck players in so we can launch a counter. 

This is the reality of it in a nutshell. It could be a tactic and on occasion he will fail to execute it. 

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1 hour ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

You don't know that they didn't ask him to hold the ball and suck players in so we can launch a counter. 

This is the reality of it in a nutshell. It could be a tactic and on occasion he will fail to execute it. 

I'm sure he's been told to play out and get our plays going yes. He's been great at it all season.

When it's not on, it's not on.

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1 hour ago, mikeyp102 said:

For me he has become a little too relaxed and is making errors that unfortunately have led to chances and goals for the opposition.  But I agree that he is being asked to play that way. It’s the way smith wants the ball moved, to try and pick a pass starting an attack. His good play still far outweighs the bad. 

I also like him at cb, having a left footed right footed partnership certainly between the cbs has its advantages. However, if Targett does get injured I think he would do a job down the left flank. I’d certainly think he’d get a fair few assists crossing the ball in and would probably score more as he could attack the back post from Guilberts crosses. Against the likes of Burnley it would also help when defending the crosses 

If target was injured, i would hope Hause gets his chance.

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17 minutes ago, TRO said:

If target was injured, i would hope Hause gets his chance.

I think Smith is fairly loyal and if Targett is injured before a game starts then I think Taylor would get the nod. However, with Konsa starting Taylor hasn’t been on the bench so if then amongst covers there. It’s a weird one with Hause how he hasn’t even made the bench, but it would appear he’s Mings’ backup and not covering lb 

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6 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

I think it should have been on, though.

mings_man_utd.thumb.jpg.b7e76cb847c4dc96bb2747772296b4eb.jpg

All he needed was Douglas to come shorter (which is the pass he's looking for) or Grealish to drop deeper for a better passing angle.

It's that process of looking for Douglas and realising it isn't on that leaves him panicking a bit, and taking extra touches.

If you're playing for a team where your first instinct is always to put your foot through the ball, then it's easy to clear it first time there. If you're playing in a passing team, where your first instinct is always to look for a pass to feet, then you're going to make more mistakes like this.

I just think some of our fans are whinging words removed who are obsessed with nitpicking over minor faults. Mings will get injured at some point this season, and then those same fans will be piling in on Konsa and Engels. I can see it already.

It wasn't on. He'd already had a chance to get rid, he carried it into this position.

He lost the ball, we conceded a corner, then a goal.

He lost it in much more comfortable scenarios v Wolves and Newcastle. He got tackled dawdling, like he is here.

If Konsa and Engels do get criticised I want you there defending them. Calling anyone pointing out their errors that lead to goals nit-picking words removed.

 

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2 hours ago, KentVillan said:

I think it should have been on, though.

mings_man_utd.thumb.jpg.b7e76cb847c4dc96bb2747772296b4eb.jpg

All he needed was Douglas to come shorter (which is the pass he's looking for) or Grealish to drop deeper for a better passing angle.

It's that process of looking for Douglas and realising it isn't on that leaves him panicking a bit, and taking extra touches.

If you're playing for a team where your first instinct is always to put your foot through the ball, then it's easy to clear it first time there. If you're playing in a passing team, where your first instinct is always to look for a pass to feet, then you're going to make more mistakes like this.

I just think some of our fans are whinging words removed who are obsessed with nitpicking over minor faults. Mings will get injured at some point this season, and then those same fans will be piling in on Konsa and Engels. I can see it already.

 He's not receiving the pass from Grealish at this moment here, he's dribbled it into trouble here as a result of him refusing to immediately clear it. He shouldn't be looking for the pass on Douglas in the first place. There was no way Mings could've passed that ball to Luiz safely even if he had come back, after Mings had taken more than one touch on the ball. There was a small window after the first touch that he could've passed to Douglas but it would've been a risky pass even with Douglas that far up the field but he doesn't take that option. 

Could Grealish and Douglas have done better in making themselves options for Mings to pass to? Possibly, but I'm not seeing that much they can do reasonably in terms of movement to actually help Mings all that much. It came of to me like they were fully expecting Mings to clear the ball which they had every right to expect, and realized the danger Mings had brought himself under far too late for them to make themselves an option for him to pass towards.

Here's the thing with the passing argument, or he takes risks argument. He doesn't need to take a lot of these risks. He can do these dribbles and passes when he isn't actually under a lot of pressure, not do it when the opposing attacker is breathing down his neck. If he has spaces, dribble it as much as you want, or look for the craziest passes Tyrone, I don't give a ****. But do it when you know you can do it reasonably safely. Ain't no good taking risks like that if you're gonna keep making mistakes that are gonna cost us. I hope he gets better at it over time, but as for now these are not the type of mistakes a 20 million pound plus centre back, and I think possibly our record signing for the club should be making and make no mistake, he's been allowing too many of them to happen.

Edited by Laughable Chimp
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He's by far our best CB but some of his decision making is a bit suspect at times, he was absolutely at fault for the first goal and anyone saying different is just making excuses for him and I don't know why, no player should be beyond criticism!

He'll learn from the manure game hopefully, there is a time and a place to play out and I'm more than happy with when he does this most the time............but that was not one of them holding a one goal lead with half time approaching and manure pressing it needed putting as far up the pitch as possible make them start again.

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11 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Tyrone keeps putting himself in a position to wildly lump it by refusing various pass options, short and long, so he can dribble the ball around for while.

It'll be great when he stops doing it, can't wait. The team and him will both better for it.

Lets be realistic he doesn't 'keep' doing it, he is a ball playing CB occasionally he'll come unstuck.

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I'm a huge fan of Mings.  His obvious passion, charisma and mental toughness isn't just window dressing.  In a game that's increasingly about concentration, discipline and the kind of synchronised agility between players needed to create those telling penetrations, having a smiling, swaggering drill sergeant in the team is a godsend.  It's not just pashun, it's concentrating focus and weaponising morale.  As icky as that comes across.

I am beginning to wonder however if Tyrone is a bit problematically one-footed?  He seems to strongly favour his left, often adjusting himself awkwardly, which hurts his composure just a little.  I wonder if Mings struggles when there's a swift switch between a more reactive, fleet-footed vigilant defence and his more pointedly 'quarter-backing' assertive moments.  I suspect this untidiness in Mings in attack mode versus Mings in defence mode may be behind the occasional lapses.  I hope he can figure out a greater balance, because he can be excellent at both, but worry that the way Mings can seem imperious one moment and then exposed the next is a natural result of our high tempo game.

Furthermore, in terms of optimising Mings's ability maybe we should be looking to improve the play from our full-backs in tandem with central midfield?  We obviously operate a very wing-based system, but maybe creating more of those those industrious triangles between full backs, central mids and wingers would open up the field of play and afford our defensive midfield, and in turn our centre backs, more time and space?

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Oh yeah, I also really liked his response to his goal.  Very GIFable, I feel.  Kinda reminded me of Ivan Drago in Rocky 4.  If he dies, he dies.  If I score, I score.  It shows his commitment and his astute temperament.  Don't get carried away, you've still got a job to do.  Back in position.  Onwards.

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4 hours ago, zab6359 said:

he was absolutely at fault for the first goal and anyone saying different is just making excuses for him and I don't know why, no player should be beyond criticism!

In reality, he made a mistake which led to a corner. The corner could and should have been defended better, primarily by Konsa who lost Rashford at the far post.

It was a bad mistake that Mings made, I'm not disagreeing with that, but I don't see how 'he was absolutely at fault for the first goal' is a factual statement.

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5 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

 He's not receiving the pass from Grealish at this moment here, he's dribbled it into trouble here as a result of him refusing to immediately clear it. He shouldn't be looking for the pass on Douglas in the first place. 

Ok Neil.

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9 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

 He's not receiving the pass from Grealish at this moment here, he's dribbled it into trouble here as a result of him refusing to immediately clear it.

False. This is just after he receives it.

8 hours ago, zab6359 said:

he was absolutely at fault for the first goal

This is a new one, blaming players for being responsible for the corner that leads to a goal.

8 hours ago, zab6359 said:

Lets be realistic he doesn't 'keep' doing it, he is a ball playing CB occasionally he'll come unstuck.

Exactly. He's playing the role he's been asked to play. We've all seen in pre-season how all of our defenders got caught in possession at times, because Smith is trying to get us to build play from the back.

Since we don't have a ballplaying goalkeeper, the most dangerous job is always going to fall to our deepest defender, and that is Mings. He will keep making mistakes like this, and he will keep getting picked.

I'm not "defending" him, I'm just trying to put the mistake in perspective, because some of the usual cretins are calling for him to be dropped.

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1 hour ago, KentVillan said:

This is a new one, blaming players for being responsible for the corner that leads to a goal.

Really? Why do you feel this need to deny what has happened and defend him so resolutely? Do you not think think they have a team debrief and DS says mate you ****** up there just get rid! He had no options available and tried to be a little clever got caught out and conceded the corner that resulted in a goal, he should be thinking one nil up getting near half time, nothing on here and hoof it past the halfway line! 

No corner = no goal simple as that.

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1 hour ago, KentVillan said:

I'm not "defending" him, I'm just trying to put the mistake in perspective, because some of the usual cretins are calling for him to be dropped.

Well anyone calling for him to be dropped watches youtube highlights only and doesn't have a clue!

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