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Racism in Football


Zatman
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4 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I'm familiar with Spitting Images but those look like obvious caricatures of their features and demeanour. I just don't see the caricature in Rashford's image. For one, you're supposed to be able to tell at a glance who is being caricatured, but without that image of him next to it, I'd have never been able to tell that was supposed to be him. 

Like that scowl for example is basically the complete opposite of his character. Then on top of that they gave him stereotypical features that he doesn't even have to begin with. Looks like what a cartoonist would come up with in the 90's if you asked them to depict "black thug".

It just seems like adding to the pile-on because the lad missed a penalty. Used to think they punched up at powerful people and politicians, not 24 year old footballers going through a particularly rough time.

I do not agree with premise that there is a racial angle, it is a caricature after-all. I suppose it should be judged on the content. For instance use Rashford to shame those in power by his real life actions. However, I seem to remember them shitting on Ed Sheeran in S1 with a purely ginger angle. So will not hold my breath. I do agree that they should always punch up rather than down. Make fun at those with the power. Is that not the whole point? By all accounts it a pale imitation of the original. 

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1 minute ago, GENTLEMAN said:

I do not agree with premise that there is a racial angle, it is a caricature after-all. I suppose it should be judged on the content. For instance use Rashford to shame those in power by his real life actions. However, I seem to remember them shitting on Ed Sheeran in S1 with a purely ginger angle. So will not hold my breath. I do agree that they should always punch up rather than down. Make fun at those with the power. Is that not the whole point? By all accounts it a pale imitation of the original. 

If it were just the large lips and nose I might be inclined to give the benefit of the doubt, but the close set eyes (literally the opposite of his) and exaggerated scowl have all my sensors beeping wildly. Looks like a mugshot.

I can't picture an angle they'd use to shit on Rashford beyond "missed penalty", which seems incredibly petty. More likely the same people who are rubbed the wrong way by his philanthropy and the praise he gets for it.

 

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24 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I'm familiar with Spitting Images but those look like obvious caricatures of their features and demeanour. I just don't see the caricature in Rashford's image. For one, you're supposed to be able to tell at a glance who is being caricatured, but without that image of him next to it, I'd have never been able to tell that was supposed to be him. 

Like that scowl for example is basically the complete opposite of his character. Then on top of that they gave him stereotypical features that he doesn't even have to begin with. Looks like what a cartoonist would come up with in the 90's if you asked them to depict "black thug".

It just seems like adding to the pile-on because the lad missed a penalty. Used to think they punched up at powerful people and politicians, not 24 year old footballers going through a particularly rough time.

I can tell it's Rashford. I think it's pretty tame, Spitting Image usually makes their targets look inhuman, that just looks like a caricature of Rashford, and not in bad taste.

As for Spitting Image punching up... It attacks people in the public eye. Rashford's in the public eye, he's a celebrity, a rich one. It's not a shock they've gone for him given he's got into the public eye outside of being purely a sportsman.

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1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

I'm familiar with Spitting Images but those look like obvious caricatures of their features and demeanour. I just don't see the caricature in Rashford's image. For one, you're supposed to be able to tell at a glance who is being caricatured, but without that image of him next to it, I'd have never been able to tell that was supposed to be him. 

Like that scowl for example is basically the complete opposite of his character. Then on top of that they gave him stereotypical features that he doesn't even have to begin with. Looks like what a cartoonist would come up with in the 90's if you asked them to depict "black thug".

It just seems like adding to the pile-on because the lad missed a penalty. Used to think they punched up at powerful people and politicians, not 24 year old footballers going through a particularly rough time.

Don't you get tired of looking for racism where none exists?

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Yea that Spitting Image thing is ok I think - I recognised him and thought it was pretty good to be honest! 

I'm sure it'll get used to lambast those in gov as opposed to use a stick to beat him with.  Be interesting to hear the accent given to him though! 

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19 hours ago, Mark Albrighton said:

I may be giving them a bit too much credit here, but I think that this is more tone deaf rather than malicious. 

The puppets are exaggerations (Kane’s and Southgate’s are fairly grotesque having just looked at them), but the creators might, or rather, should have reconsidered using Rashord at all, or at the very least redesigned the puppet because they must know it will draw criticism if they don’t do a “fair” job caricaturing Rashford or any prominent black/non white individual.

 

Edit - and that consideration should have been underlined and bolded following the recent online abuse. 

Wouldn't it be racist if Spitting Image only caricatured white people though (not "why won't you pick on black people too?" but rather "why are you airbrushing black people out of the picture?")

I don't really see that puppet as particularly out of line compared to any of the others. I really don't like the melted candle aesthetic of SI but it's recognisable as Rashford for me at least, albeit mostly from his clothes and hair (same as the Boris puppet in that regard imo).

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31 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

Wouldn't it be racist if Spitting Image only caricatured white people though (not "why won't you pick on black people too?" but rather "why are you airbrushing black people out of the picture?")

I don't really see that puppet as particularly out of line compared to any of the others. I really don't like the melted candle aesthetic of SI but it's recognisable as Rashford for me at least, albeit mostly from his clothes and hair (same as the Boris puppet in that regard imo).

I don’t have a problem with them making a caricature of a prominent black person. For instance, their Trevor McDonald puppet I think was ok. It exaggerated his glasses and it had a certain downbeat expression which McDonald has. I don’t look at that and find it jarring. The Kanye West one I’ve seen, I see that and I think “that’s a caricature of Kanye”.

I think the problem, such as it is, (because I think it’s just a crap puppet, rather than anything malicious on behalf of the show’s creators as I’ve already stated) is that Marcus Rashford isn’t particularly “cartoony” in terms of how he looks, or his demeanour. Johnson and Trump are basically pantomime characters in both their manner and their appearance which makes them easier to depict in a sort of Gerald Scarfe esque style.

With Rashford, I don’t think there’s much “quirkiness” in his look to amplify so the end result is a bit off. I think.

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2 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

I don’t have a problem with them making a caricature of a prominent black person. For instance, their Trevor McDonald puppet I think was ok. It exaggerated his glasses and it had a certain downbeat expression which McDonald has. I don’t look at that and find it jarring. The Kanye West one I’ve seen, I see that and I think “that’s a caricature of Kanye”.

I think the problem, such as it is, (because I think it’s just a crap puppet, rather than anything malicious on behalf of the show’s creators as I’ve already stated) is that Marcus Rashford isn’t particularly “cartoony” in terms of how he looks, or his demeanour. Johnson and Trump are basically pantomime characters in both their manner and their appearance which makes them easier to depict in a sort of Gerald Scarfe esque style.

With Rashford, I don’t think there’s much “quirkiness” in his look to amplify so the end result is a bit off. I think.

Yeah, that's fair enough - I misunderstood what you meant when you said they should have reconsidered using Rashford then.

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3 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

Yeah, that's fair enough - I misunderstood what you meant when you said they should have reconsidered using Rashford then.

In fairness, I did say reconsider using Rashford at all, but I get why they would use him. He’s probably one of the most famous footballers in the country. And I’m willing to guess a sketch might be that Rashford overall comes across as decent and Boris comes across as a prick and it’s all well intentioned and fine.

Basically I think they’ve tried to exaggerate him in their house style, and the end result is not quite right. Without wanting to bring back unfortunate memories of Jason Lee’s pineapple haircut, it probably would have been helpful to the creators if Rashford had a more recognisable hairstyle. Something that you see and instantly think “Oh that’s Rashford”. 

I imagine a Grealish puppet could well make an appearance. For about 5 seconds near the end of the sketch.

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We shouldn't even be having this conversation at all, it was never mentioned with Trevor McDonald. Good god, when you watch it, please do not laugh or say it looks like him, or else some will call you racist.

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25 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Wild night on Juve Women's Twitter account :D

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Was that meant for a group chat? How could a social media team ever post anything like this and not think it was a bad idea? I thought their whole job was to make the club look good? Just baffling.

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BBC - Social media abuse: Twitter says UK 'by far' main origin of comments after Euro 2020 final

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The UK was "by far" the main origin of the "abhorrent racist abuse" on Twitter after England lost the Euro 2020 final, the social media platform has said.

Marcus Rashford, Bukayo Saka and Jadon Sancho were abused after missing in the penalty shootout loss to Italy.

Twitter removed 1,622 tweets in the next 24 hours but identify verification "would have been unlikely to prevent the abuse", it said.

"Of the permanently suspended accounts, 99% of their owners were identifiable."

Police arrested 11 people for sending racist social media messages after the final, with almost four times more of the criminal comments being posted by people overseas than in the UK.

However, Twitter said: "While many have quite rightly highlighted the global nature of the conversation, it is also important to acknowledge the UK was - by far - the largest country of origin for the abusive tweets we removed."

The 'it wasn't us being racist, it was the foreigners' defence in the immediate aftermath always did ring a bit hollow.

Edited by Sam-AVFC
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