Racism in Football

[StefanAVFC]

Off topic but the BBC was very much neutral but recently it leans right. Robbie Gibb in charge, and Laura K as the political editor. 

[Davkaus]

4 hours ago, paul514 said:

 

As for scholars of race relations, give me a break, I couldn't give a shiny shite what those race baiters have to say.

I can see why you'd have no time for people who've spent years considering evidence.

[Stevo985]

I can see why paul was just using laughing emojis previously. 

[blandy]

22 hours ago, paul514 said:

You can’t know why an individual is booing, no one but the individual can.

Here’s the thing I struggle with @paul514 . I agree with this post. I think you’re saying we have to ask someone why they are doing it, listen to their reply and accept what they say as the true reason.  That’s right, isn’t it? I think that’s a fair point.

The bit I don’t get though, is if that’s the case, then the same applies to the footballers. “Why are you kneeling, is it because you support Marxist BLM?”

”No, we’re kneeling because we’re protesting against racism”

so using our agreed (I think) stance to listen to people and accept what they say are their reasons for booing or kneeling, as we are fair minded people, I don’t quite get whether you still think this:

On 14/07/2021 at 21:32, paul514 said:

Players taking a knee and saying it is about the slogan and not the political organisation are still supporting the organisation.

I would boo them.

I guess I’m asking if you have slightly changed your mind at all, based on your commendable principle of listening to people’s reasoning and acceptance of their reasons? Maybe would you now just stay silent, for example, instead of booing?

[HanoiVillan]

8 hours ago, QldVilla said:

Of course you find holes in my post, because you would have to stop and think, rather than changing views formed on BBC articles, Google and your brothers wife's 3 year experience in the country!

Your problem is you take comments literally rather than the scope and meaning of what they were intended and in the context they were intended.

You called Australia a racist country it is not, You infer details that aren't there. Not everything is black and white, a handful of racist comments does not make a racial nation.

If I were going to write a furious denunciation of someone for allegedly misunderstanding my country's politics, I might have pause for some reflection if I had to start by saying 'Your problem is you take comments literally rather than the scope and meaning of what they were intended and in the context they were intended'.

Still, it's probably just as well that 'a handful of racist comments does not make a racial (sic) nation', because otherwise people might draw the wrong conclusions from comments like:

On 15/07/2021 at 12:14, QldVilla said:

David would say your extremely wide of the mark with regards to assumptions of racism of the aboriginal people. Yes they have challenges, but they are in part because they were a hunter gather people who didn’t evolve for thousands of years, like the outside world

Doubtless the problem is me 'tak[ing these] comments literally', my bad.

[El Zen]

Some people choose the strangest of hills to die on. 

[bobzy]

2 hours ago, blandy said:

Here’s the thing I struggle with @paul514 . I agree with this post. I think you’re saying we have to ask someone why they are doing it, listen to their reply and accept what they say as the true reason.  That’s right, isn’t it? I think that’s a fair point.

The bit I don’t get though, is if that’s the case, then the same applies to the footballers. “Why are you kneeling, is it because you support Marxist BLM?”

”No, we’re kneeling because we’re protesting against racism”

so using our agreed (I think) stance to listen to people and accept what they say are their reasons for booing or kneeling, as we are fair minded people, I don’t quite get whether you still think this:

I guess I’m asking if you have slightly changed your mind at all, based on your commendable principle of listening to people’s reasoning and acceptance of their reasons? Maybe would you now just stay silent, for example, instead of booing?

My guess is no. 

[AvonVillain]

Excellent article pertinent to this thread by John Harris: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/18/footballers-englishness-euro-2020-post-brexit-culture

[paul514]

6 hours ago, blandy said:

Here’s the thing I struggle with @paul514 . I agree with this post. I think you’re saying we have to ask someone why they are doing it, listen to their reply and accept what they say as the true reason.  That’s right, isn’t it? I think that’s a fair point.

The bit I don’t get though, is if that’s the case, then the same applies to the footballers. “Why are you kneeling, is it because you support Marxist BLM?”

”No, we’re kneeling because we’re protesting against racism”

so using our agreed (I think) stance to listen to people and accept what they say are their reasons for booing or kneeling, as we are fair minded people, I don’t quite get whether you still think this:

I guess I’m asking if you have slightly changed your mind at all, based on your commendable principle of listening to people’s reasoning and acceptance of their reasons? Maybe would you now just stay silent, for example, instead of booing?

I do think people need to talk and listen to each other, they don't have to accept what they are saying or importantly not question the context surrounding it.

You see this is the thing, I don't agree these people know what they are on about. 

You can see the differences in definitions of systemic racism on the last couple of pages, I can't even agree with BLM supporters definition of racism.
 

[Keyblade]

5 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

  On 15/07/2021 at 07:14, QldVilla said:

David would say your extremely wide of the mark with regards to assumptions of racism of the aboriginal people. Yes they have challenges, but they are in part because they were a hunter gather people who didn’t evolve for thousands of years, like the outside world

Is this a quote of someone else ("David" perhaps?)? Because this is easily the most racist thing posted in this thread. Jesus.

[blandy]

19 hours ago, paul514 said:

I do think people need to talk and listen to each other, they don't have to accept what they are saying or importantly not question the context surrounding it.

You see this is the thing, I don't agree these people know what they are on about. 

You can see the differences in definitions of systemic racism on the last couple of pages, I can't even agree with BLM supporters definition of racism.
 

Why don't you think that football players subjected to racist abuse think they know "what they're on about" in terms of wanting it to stop and demonstrating they want it to stop by taking the knee?

I must admit, personally, I think they know exactly what it's like to be racially abused, more than I do (or you) I'm sure. I also support them protesting against it - I mean who wouldn't?

See, I think that even people who don't believe there's systemic racism (however we define it) in England do know (as I think you've said) that there are racists who abuse people. So wouldn't you want to stop that happening? Even if you thought the players (and their team mates) kneeling might not work, or might not be the best way to send a message, surely you'd agree that just staying silent while they kneel for  a few moments  is better than actively booing them - even if just for your own benefit so people (in your phrase) accept what you say about not being a racist and don’t question the context surrounding your denial. I mean I don't think you are - you've said nothing racist on here at all, but some people might not accept what you're saying and think you are, might they not? Why go through that just to boo someone who wants racists to stop abusing them (and others)?

 

[HanoiVillan]

51 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Is this a quote of someone else ("David" perhaps?)? Because this is easily the most racist thing posted in this thread. Jesus.

I can't work out who 'David' is going back through the thread, I think it may have been a typo. But yes, it's a very racist thing to say.

[Big Salad]

Their is no excuse to spew racial abuse/profanities and never will be.  It absolutely disgusts me whenever I see it in not only football, but just life in general.  However, I do think a lot of time that the people who can really change things tend to bury their heads in the sand rather than face the issues head on and do something about it.  Racism to me is more than just about saying a certain few words/statements in isolated incidents (rather those involved sports or not) but its about the constant stripping of a person over a period of time.

I think the issues of racism in football is reflected across all aspects of society.

And lastly, to be racist at all over a sport is moronic, disgusting, and whatever word you want to use.  Sport is about entertaining us, not life.

[tomav84]

11 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

Off topic but the BBC was very much neutral but recently it leans right. Robbie Gibb in charge, and Laura K as the political editor. 

to be honest i dont know what the bbc is anymore. seems like it's hated on both sides but moreso by the right, in fact their hatred of the bbc was the main reason for gb news being started...but that's dying a not so slow death

[tomav84]

3 hours ago, paul514 said:

I do think people need to talk and listen to each other, they don't have to accept what they are saying or importantly not question the context surrounding it.

You see this is the thing, I don't agree these people know what they are on about. 

You can see the differences in definitions of systemic racism on the last couple of pages, I can't even agree with BLM supporters definition of racism.
 

specifically footballers? or anyone who takes the knee?

there's no deep hidden message here. it's a simple anti racism gesture. i don't think they're 'on about' anything per se

[a m ole]

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

I can't work out who 'David' is going back through the thread, I think it may have been a typo. But yes, it's a very racist thing to say.

Imagine saying there’s not systemic racism or racism at all in Australia then coming out with Aboriginal people are ‘less evolved’.

[TRO]

21 hours ago, paul514 said:

Sorry, what?

The authorities should be interviewing people who boo?

why are they booing, Paul?

[Guest av1]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

why are they booing, Paul?

Because they are thick brain dead idiots. 

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, av1 said:

Because they are thick brain dead idiots. 

I was hoping for a more analytical response.....but not arguing either.

[AvonVillain]

17 minutes ago, av1 said:

Because they are thick brain dead idiots. 

And so it starts again. Sadly, it's beyond a humble football forum to get to grips with much more than... football, it seems.