DCJonah Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 1 minute ago, foreveryoung said: Non racists don't choose to use racist language, they might say something out on context, but it don't automatically become a racist if they do. I'm sure most have said something which could be interpreted as racist in there life, are they now racist?? You genuinely believe most people have said racist things? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Just now, DCJonah said: You genuinely believe most people have said racist things? Really? The racist ones have. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, DCJonah said: It seems that way. Like you have to be in the Klan to be classed as a racist by some on here. There's no amount of anger that would make a non-racist person say that. Actually, looking into it, he wasn't even angry? He was on air and he thought the microphone was cut off when he said: Quote "...he [Desailly] is what is known in some schools as a **** lazy, thick n****" Because non-racists just casually describe people like that all the time apparently. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 1 minute ago, Keyblade said: There's no amount of anger that would make a non-racist person say that. Actually, looking into it, he wasn't even angry? He was on air and he thought the microphone was cut off when he said: Because non-racists just casually describe people like that all the time apparently. Exactly. How on earth do you defend that or shrug it off? And he said it at work. What do you think he talks like in the safety of his home or round his mates. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Exactly. How on earth do you defend that or shrug it off? And he said it at work. What do you think he talks like in the safety of his home or round his mates. If someone I knew said that, I'm never speaking to them ever again. I already know what they think of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Defining a racist is quite a complex issue. The guy I mentioned in my last post is a racist, yet he won't think he is. He dated an Asian girl... But is still a racist. There can often be a level of cognitive dissonance when it comes to racism - hence to old adage that "I can't be as I have a black mate". Sometimes people use racist language because of their generation, out of ignorance, what they perceive to be harmless, or simply something that was isolated. But I would say that they're still racists. Not the beat up a black guy because he's had the audacity to be in the same chip shop, but still a racist. Racism is as much about power as it is ignorance or hatred. Boris is a prime example of someone that thinks he has the right to look down on other races with impunity, as he's simply "better" than them. He is a racist. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, StanBalaban said: I would also love to know why they boo if they're not a racist. I used to work with a guy who was genuinely a nice fella most of the time, and he's still in the greater social circle, but he would always have a level of outrage reserved for things that really don't affect his life at all. Sounds like a cliché, but he was a Brexit Party supporter, reads the Daily Heil but headlines only, gets angry about statues being taken down saying "it's erasing history" despite having never heard of the person in question. When brought to his attention that Colson was a slave trader he'll point out that he did good by donating a lot of money into his home town. If someone was to ask if a Jimmy Savile statue should be remain standing because of his charity work, he'd dismiss it as a non-comparible example. After a few drinks you can be assured that he'll tell you that he doesn't want Transgender teachers, despite not having any kids. Loves Laurence Fox as he "tells the woke where to shove it". Doesn't see the irony that those moaning about being cancelled are doing so from the media jobs and social platforms. He has firm views on immigration, despite the fact that he lives in Dubai. "I'm not an immigrant, I'm an expat". Shares royal black baby jokes on WhatsApp, yet dated a Pakistani girl. He also boos the taking of the knee, despite having no interest in football. Why, because he says it's supporting the BLM movement. Show him what Gareth Southgate wrote and he'll say "come on you know it is. Don't be so naiïve." His views are entrenched, and they're no seeing of the light moment. He is an embodiment of English exceptionalism, that doesn't want change because his demographic is at the top of the food chain. When you're privileged in society, any quest to level the playing field will seem like oppression. My point is, there are many like him that can't or won't empathise with other and lack the capacity to try to walk in someone else's shoes. Couple that to a sheer unwillingness to step outside of the Mail or Facebook for information and you have a brick wall that's unwilling to budge. There's various layers of racism and bigotry, yet this guy would say he's neither. sounds like a not very nice fella. When they are caught, they should go to the criminal courts and maybe we can find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, StanBalaban said: Defining a racist is quite a complex issue. The guy I mentioned in my last post is a racist, yet he won't think he is. He dated an Asian girl... But is still a racist. There can often be a level of cognitive dissonance when it comes to racism - hence to old adage that "I can't be as I have a black mate". Sometimes people use racist language because of their generation, out of ignorance, what they perceive to be harmless, or simply something that was isolated. But I would say that they're still racists. Not the beat up a black guy because he's had the audacity to be in the same chip shop, but still a racist. Racism is as much about power as it is ignorance or hatred. Boris is a prime example of someone that thinks he has the right to look down on other races with impunity, as he's simply "better" than them. He is a racist. The problem with the discourse about racism is that we have it engrained in our collective minds as a society that being a racist is some sort of character defect and not just a result of ignorance and/or upbringing. Like if someone is racist, then that's it they'll forever be that way and need to be ostracized from society. This is why people get so defensive when that word is thrown around. They think to themselves "I'm a decent bloke, there's no way I'm racist. I even have black friends" etc. You can be a good person generally and still have some racist views. A lot of it can be just down to ignorance and simply not knowing better. It's important people get educated on their views, but that's made difficult by people's reluctance to even accept that their views might be problematic to begin with. It's a vicious feedback loop, and I'm not sure how we get out of it. I mean, if we can't even universally agree that calling someone a lazy **** n***** isn't racist, then where do we even start? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, StanBalaban said: Defining a racist is quite a complex issue. The guy I mentioned in my last post is a racist, yet he won't think he is. He dated an Asian girl... But is still a racist. There can often be a level of cognitive dissonance when it comes to racism - hence to old adage that "I can't be as I have a black mate". Sometimes people use racist language because of their generation, out of ignorance, what they perceive to be harmless, or simply something that was isolated. But I would say that they're still racists. Not the beat up a black guy because he's had the audacity to be in the same chip shop, but still a racist. Racism is as much about power as it is ignorance or hatred. Boris is a prime example of someone that thinks he has the right to look down on other races with impunity, as he's simply "better" than them. He is a racist. Fantastic post. There seems to be a belief from some on here that racism only exists in extreme forms. With that belief, some of their posts make more sense. But it's simply not true. Racism is not just being in a skin head gang or truly hating those who are different. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Just now, TRO said: sounds like a not very nice fella. When they are caught, they should go to the criminal courts and maybe we can find out. That's the confusing thing mate.... He actually is a nice fella on the whole. I think he suffers from having zero levels of critical thinking and self reflection. He's spoon fed toxic views that he admits alligns with how he's been brought up, and has an unwillingness, or inability, to challenge himself on said views. At the same time, he's perfectly good company within the group and can be very generous. He's a walking conflict within himself, but lacks self awareness to realise he's a racist. Like so many of us, he's a flawed character. Unlike the many, he's unwilling to work on his flaws, as they're not flaws in his mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 1 minute ago, Keyblade said: The problem with the discourse about racism is that we have it engrained in our collective minds as a society that being a racist is some sort of character defect and not just a result of ignorance and/or upbringing. Like if someone is racist, then that's it they'll forever be that way and need to be ostracized from society. This is why people get so defensive when that word is thrown around. They think to themselves "I'm a decent bloke, there's no way I'm racist. I even have black friends" etc. You can be a good person generally and still have some racist views. A lot of it can be just down to ignorance and simply not knowing better. It's important people get educated on their views, but that's made difficult by people's reluctance to even accept that their views might be problematic to begin with. It's a vicious feedback loop, and I'm not sure how we get out of it. I mean, if we can't even universally agree that calling someone a lazy **** n***** isn't racist, then where do we even start? Yep. A few days ago, there were people on here creating ridiculous scenarios to justify why a white person using the N word isn't a racist. And these are the people who see themselves as on the anti racism side. We seem a long way from fixing the issue. I'm thankful players like Mings keep it out there in the world for all to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 20 minutes ago, TRO said: When they are caught, they should go to the criminal courts and maybe we can find out. I sincerely hope this is tongue in cheek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 12 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Yep. A few days ago, there were people on here creating ridiculous scenarios to justify why a white person using the N word isn't a racist. And yet these ridiculous scenarios are happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 22 minutes ago, StanBalaban said: Defining a racist is quite a complex issue. The guy I mentioned in my last post is a racist, yet he won't think he is. He dated an Asian girl... But is still a racist. There can often be a level of cognitive dissonance when it comes to racism - hence to old adage that "I can't be as I have a black mate". Sometimes people use racist language because of their generation, out of ignorance, what they perceive to be harmless, or simply something that was isolated. But I would say that they're still racists. Not the beat up a black guy because he's had the audacity to be in the same chip shop, but still a racist. Racism is as much about power as it is ignorance or hatred. Boris is a prime example of someone that thinks he has the right to look down on other races with impunity, as he's simply "better" than them. He is a racist. It is, which has been my main point. Stan...can you honestly say, you have never heard racist remarks, by Indian folk? towards other nationalities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 16 minutes ago, StanBalaban said: That's the confusing thing mate.... He actually is a nice fella on the whole. I think he suffers from having zero levels of critical thinking and self reflection. He's spoon fed toxic views that he admits alligns with how he's been brought up, and has an unwillingness, or inability, to challenge himself on said views. At the same time, he's perfectly good company within the group and can be very generous. He's a walking conflict within himself, but lacks self awareness to realise he's a racist. Like so many of us, he's a flawed character. Unlike the many, he's unwilling to work on his flaws, as they're not flaws in his mind. I say to you again....are there not examples of him in every country in the world? Tell me who, is the Country, where racsim does not exist. Its complex, which has been the centre of my point all along on this debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 2 hours ago, TRO said: I am not excusing them, just interested in their reasoning, so we can get to the bottom of it....it may vary, it may all be the same....We need to know. They've explained their reasoning. It'd 'Marxist' This despite everyone coming out stating Marxism has nothing to do it, and these people not knowing what Marxism is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ml1dch Posted July 16, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 16, 2021 I don't want to cast aspersions on anyone's motivations but it takes some pretty spectacular leaps of mental agility to think that both (a) explicitly racist comments from Boris Johnson aren't really a sign of racism and (b) explicitly clear language from Southgate and his players regarding their motivation shouldn't just be taken at face value, because y'know, what some fans reckon and all that. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, TRO said: I say to you again....are there not examples of him in every country in the world? Tell me who, is the Country, where racsim does not exist. Its complex, which has been the centre of my point all along on this debate. Without a doubt, it's a global issue. Not that I think you're saying this at all, but England shouldn't pat itself on the back for being slightly less racist than some other nations. However, what better was to send a message of solidarity to the watching world than to take a knee in the final of Euro2020. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 1 hour ago, foreveryoung said: Well he would know all about racism living in Poland i'm sure. I bet they wish they just had a bit of booing in the big football events over there, rather the mass racism and old school hooliganism. I mean what does this have to do with anything? Because i live in Poland I can't have an opinion on the state of the situation in the UK? Broadly in Poland the same groups are the ones who are racist, as boo taking the knee over in the UK. The majority of people are normal, non racist folk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, foreveryoung said: Errr, were talking racism, an Poland makes our country seem like the school playground to the issues with racism they have had there, an still do have. The bigger problem in Poland now is with LGBT discrimination, led by thr government and their supporters (old people and rural people) I don't hear of racist incidents in my bubble and when England play Poland in the football, no one will be booing black players. Its not Bulgaria. Edited July 16, 2021 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts