Racism in Football

[TRO]

5 hours ago, StanBalaban said:

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5 hours ago, StanBalaban said:

I'm of Indian heritage, but born at Good Hope and brought up in Sutton. I've lived outside of the UK for 14 years now, but very much class myself as English as it's my home. My father passed away 2 years ago having come from India, having spent 50+ years of his life in the UK. It was his home too, and that's where he wanted to be laid to rest.

Over the years, I've suffered racial abuse from people I considered my fellow countrymen, and this has been right back from a young age. I've no problem if someone thinks I'm a word removed because I'm being a word removed, but to be abused simply on the colour of my skin makes little sense to me. 

I'm not one to dwell on historical abuses and abusers, nor am I particularly the sentimental type. However, when I see Villa players and those representing my country showing solidarity towards an important social issue, it warms my heart and gives me hope. If I was on that pitch, I would partake in whatever gesture it took to show a that whilst racism is real and sadly still endemic in 2021, there is a harmonious cross section of people that simply won't stand for it.

I'm not black. I have no allegiance with any given movement, I'm not a Marxist, as much as I can't imagine Jack Grealish is a Marxist. I'm a partner in a global wealth management firm, so I'm definitely not against capitalism.

However, I do feel a level of inclusiveness and solidarity by the statement on the pitch, which should give those who boo for the reasons they've given at least something to reconsider. Unless, of course, they're simply racist.

 

Stan, No reasonable thinking person would support Racism.....but it has to be clear, that racism that exists in any community irrespective of the colour of their skin, must be condemned.

I am with you, any sensible form of protest is welcome.

But, I am sure, you would agree, wouldn't it be nice to know why some folk feel the need to boo, the players protest, it seems some have judged them ,without knowing......when we know, there is a stronger position to deal with it. If they are all racists, it at least identifies a strategy for the Authorities to embark on.

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by TRO

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

 

Stan, No reasonable thinking person would support Racism.....but it has to be clear, that racism that exists in any community irrespective of the colour of their skin, must be condemned.

I am with you, any sensible form of protest is welcome.

But, I am sure, you would agree, wouldn't it be nice to know why some folk feel the need to boo, the players protest, it seems some have judged them ,without knowing......when we know, there is a stronger position to deal with it. If they are all racists, it at least identifies a strategy for the Authorities to embark on.

 

You literally just excused Atkinson for using the N word. 

[TRO]

22 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

And yet you choose to post on an Internet forum, defending, excusing and minimising racist behaviour. Do you not see how that is part of the issue and has been for so long? 

That is a false narrative and you know it, but typically you choose that notion, despite me saying the contrary.....is it any doubt, we can't agree on the colour of the grass, in a football debate.

Its your interpretation of the behaviour, I have issue with.....You seem to have a crystal Ball and know what their motives are for booing, thats the issue here, not whether Racism is acceptable....You and I know its not, but still you counter on the same theme.

you don't read, what folk are saying, you just go off on a tangent that your " judge and Jury " view takes you.

being not prepared to listen to varying views is entirely why we are arguing, and yet you still cling to your interpretation of what I am saying, despite me correcting you to the contrary.

[foreveryoung]

37 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

@StefanAVFCmade a great post earlier. I can't be arsed responding to someone, who even now is throwing out the "don't all lives matter" when it comes to this. 

Well he would know all about racism living in Poland i'm sure. I bet they wish they just had a bit of booing in the big football events over there, rather the mass racism and old school hooliganism.

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, foreveryoung said:

Well he would know all about racism living in Poland i'm sure. I bet they wish they just had a bit of booing in the big football events over there, rather the mass racism and old school hooliganism.

What has that got to do with anything?

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

That is a false narrative and you know it, but typically you choose that notion, despite me saying the contrary.....is it any doubt, we can't agree on the colour of the grass, in a football debate.

Its your interpretation of the behaviour, I have issue with.....You seem to have a crystal Ball and know what their motives are for booing, thats the issue here, not whether Racism is acceptable....You and I know its not, but still you counter on the same theme.

you don't read, what folk are saying, you just go off on a tangent that your " judge and Jury " view takes you.

being not prepared to listen to varying views is entirely why we are arguing, and yet you still cling to your interpretation of what I am saying, despite me correcting you to the contrary.

I've read all your views thanks. Me being stunned by them isn't not listening. It's genuinely believing that attitudes that you portray are part of the problem. 

You look for reasons to excuse behaviour that I believe is racist. For what purpose I have no idea. 

You haven't corrected anything. I know exactly your point and disagree strongly. 

 

[TRO]

57 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

You literally just excused Atkinson for using the N word. 

you have a real weird view of what's being said.

are you  just being awkward, or do you genuinely not understand what I am saying?

No I did not excuse him.....I merely said it was an isolated incident, of regretful behaviour and was not representative of the man himself....thats my view.

I have been called an English so and so, by an Irishman, not knowing, I am half Irish.....does that mean I should condemn him to being a Racist on that basis alone....grow up.

Edited July 16, 2021 by TRO

[foreveryoung]

2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

What has that got to do with anything?

Errr, were talking racism, an Poland makes our country seem like the school playground to the issues with racism they have had there, an still do have.

[DCJonah]

Just now, foreveryoung said:

Errr, were talking racism, an Poland makes our country seem like the school playground to the issues with racism they have had there, an still do have.

Good point. If only there was something people in the public eye could do to raise awareness of the global issue of racism. Maybe footballers could do something. 

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I've read all your views thanks. Me being stunned by them isn't not listening. It's genuinely believing that attitudes that you portray are part of the problem. 

You look for reasons to excuse behaviour that I believe is racist. For what purpose I have no idea. 

You haven't corrected anything. I know exactly your point and disagree strongly. 

 

DC...I would be most appreciative if you refrain, from answering any of my posts and vice versa....inc Football.

you seem to have your own agenda.

we have absolutely nothing in common and no grounds for debate.

I will obviously oblige, by doing the same.

good night, sir.

Edited July 16, 2021 by TRO

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

you have a real weird view of what's being said.

are just being awkward, or do you genuinely not understand what I am saying?

No I did not excuse him.....I merely said it was an isolated incident, of regretful behaviour and was not representative of the man himself....thats my view.

I have been called an English so and so, by an Irishman, not knowing, I am half Irish.....does that mean I should condemn him to being a Racist on that basis alone....grow up.

Again you bring it back to yourself or other races who have faced discrimination. As if white people being abused somehow means black people shouldn't be making such a fuss about it. 

Fine, that's your view on the man. But don't excuse someone who you like whilst at the same time tell others racism should be condemned. What he said was disgusting racist language, it shouldn't be brushed off as just a regretful one off. It was more than likely only a one off because of an issue with a microphone. You think a man prepared to use that language while at his place of work doesn't speak like that more often? 

[DCJonah]

Just now, TRO said:

DC...I would be most appreciative if you refrain, from answering any of my posts and vice versa....inc Football.

we have absolutely nothing in common and no grounds for debate.

I will obviously oblige, by doing the same.

good night, sir.

I'll remind you that you engaged my points.

And sorry, but whilst you choose to excuse racist behaviour I'll happily point out where I disagree. 

[foreveryoung]

Just now, TRO said:

you have a real weird view of what's being said.

are just being awkward, or do you genuinely not understand what I am saying?

No I did not excuse him.....I merely said it was an isolated incident, of regretful behaviour and was not representative of the man himself....thats my view.

I have been called an English so and so, by an Irishman, not knowing, I am half Irish.....does that mean I should condemn him to being a Racist on that basis alone....grow up.

Like I mentioned a few days ago. No one believed it, but believe me I have heard it. The cool kids call there black mates the N word and the Black lads think nothing of it. They will also say things like " well you must be a gangster cause your black" blah blah. it's far from them being racist, which takes me to the point, after listening to a few on here, people are really gonna  have to start thinking before they talk, as just one word out of place and you could be labeled a racist for the rest of your life.

[Keyblade]

58 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Doesn't it? I think calling someone a lazy **** N word is pretty racist. In fact I don't know a single person who would ever use language like that let alone try and defend it. 

If someone who called another person a lazy **** N word isn't racist, then who is? What's the baseline? You have to have a lynching or 2 under your belt or something? 

[StanBalaban]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

 

Stan, No reasonable thinking person would support Racism.....but it has to be clear, that racism that exists in any community irrespective of the colour of their skin, must be condemned.

I am with you, any sensible form of protest is welcome.

But, I am sure, you would agree, wouldn't be nice to know why some folk feel the need to boo, the players protest, it seems some have judged them ,without knowing......when we know, there is a stronger position to deal with it. If they are all racists, it at least identifies a strategy for the Authorities to embark on.

 

I would also love to know why they boo if they're not a racist.

I used to work with a guy who was genuinely a nice fella most of the time, and he's still in the greater social circle, but he would always have a level of outrage reserved for things that really don't affect his life at all.

Sounds like a cliché, but he was a Brexit Party supporter, reads the Daily Heil but headlines only, gets angry about statues being taken down saying "it's erasing history" despite having never heard of the person in question. When brought to his attention that Colson was a slave trader he'll point out that he did good by donating a lot of money into his home town. If someone was to ask if a Jimmy Savile statue should be remain standing because of his charity work, he'd dismiss it as a non-comparible example.

After a few drinks you can be assured that he'll tell you that he doesn't want Transgender teachers, despite not having any kids.

Loves Laurence Fox as he "tells the woke where to shove it". Doesn't see the irony that those moaning about being cancelled are doing so from the media jobs and social platforms. 

He has firm views on immigration, despite the fact that he lives in Dubai. "I'm not an immigrant, I'm an expat".

Shares royal black baby jokes on WhatsApp, yet dated a Pakistani girl. 

He also boos the taking of the knee, despite having no interest in football. Why, because he says it's supporting the BLM movement. Show him what Gareth Southgate wrote and he'll say "come on you know it is. Don't be so naiïve." His views are entrenched, and they're no seeing of the light moment.

He is an embodiment of English exceptionalism, that doesn't want change because his demographic is at the top of the food chain. When you're privileged in society, any quest to level the playing field will seem like oppression.

My point is, there are many like him that can't or won't empathise with other and lack the capacity to try to walk in someone else's shoes. Couple that to a sheer unwillingness to step outside of the Mail or Facebook for information and you have a brick wall that's unwilling to budge. There's various layers of racism and bigotry, yet this guy would say he's neither.

 

 

[DCJonah]

Just now, foreveryoung said:

Like I mentioned a few days ago. No one believed it, but believe me I have heard it. The cool kids call there black mates the N word and the Black lads think nothing of it. They will also say things like " well you must be a gangster cause your black" blah blah. it's far from them being racist, which takes me to the point, after listening to a few on here, people are really gonna  have to start thinking before they talk, as just one word out of place and you could be labeled a racist for the rest of your life.

Is this a bad thing? People thinking about the language they use before they choose to use racist language? 

Isn't that good? Wouldn't that help make things better? You seem to imply that this is something to mock. Which given your defence of people who booed or use racist language, seems very strange for someone who keeps saying they're against racism.

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

my point was racism is not a one way street....but folk believe what they want to believe

Sorry, what’s the two-way discourse when it comes to racism? How the **** is it not a one-way street?

1 hour ago, TRO said:

so did Ron Atkinson, and he isn't racist either....They might use words in regretful situations, doesn't make them racist

 

1 hour ago, TRO said:

stupid comment, and typically Boris.....

People say things on the spur of the moment, and understandably get rebuffed, when a sensitive subject like this is aired.....when they say it all the time, thats the time for enemy action.

Yes, of course they’re racist. How can you not see this? Who the **** uses this kind of language in ANY context if they aren’t racist? The mind boggles.

It doesn’t mean that people can’t change, naturally. They can see the wrong in their ways and become an actual human being. But you just don’t use that language if you’re aren’t racist. It’s that simple.

Reminds me of a good friend of mine who always used to call the local offy the “paki shop”. I called him out on it every time - whenever he’s reminded of it now, he shudders. Absolutely was racist, now isn’t. 

Edited July 16, 2021 by bobzy

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

If someone who called another person a lazy **** N word isn't racist, then who is? What's the baseline? You have to have a lynching or 2 under your belt or something? 

It seems that way. 

Like you have to be in the Klan to be classed as a racist by some on here. 

[foreveryoung]

1 minute ago, DCJonah said:

Is this a bad thing? People thinking about the language they use before they choose to use racist language? 

Isn't that good? Wouldn't that help make things better? You seem to imply that this is something to mock. Which given your defence of people who booed or use racist language, seems very strange for someone who keeps saying they're against racism.

Non racists don't choose to use racist language, they might say something out on context, but it don't automatically become a racist if they do. I'm sure most have said something which could be interpreted as racist in there life, are they now racist??

[bobzy]

Just now, foreveryoung said:

Non racists don't choose to use racist language, they might say something out on context, but it don't automatically become a racist if they do. I'm sure most have said something which could be interpreted as racist in there life, are they now racist??

Give an example of where this might happen?