Racism in Football

[sparrow1988]

12 hours ago, TRO said:

I decided to create balance....Irish people experienced untold discrimination in this country at one time, which wasn't right or fair, but it happened...Irish Travellers are discriminated against as are asian people.

Its work in progress.

any sensible thinking person, would distance themselves from any form of discrimination or racism, but balance your point a bit better, it can be a two way street.

 

How do you create balance here though? Does the prime minister come out and say "Alright everyone, the other world leaders and I have decided to take all the money out of everyone's account and shared it evenly amongst all citizens. In order to rid all prejudice, we all start today from the same point." I'm being facetious here before anybody accuses me of being a descendant of Vladimir Lenin.

Do you allow black people to control a slave trade for the next couple of centuries build up their wealth over centuries with white people working for them and then roughly 200 years after that say "right, now we're roughly at the point of where we were in 2021, carry on as you see fit"? Again - facetious.

How can you create balance when an attack by a muslim on London Bridge or in Woolwich is described as a terror attack, and when an English man in his van drives in to a crowd of worshippers outside a mosque it's not?

You are right in your last two sentences. It is most definitely a work in progress and any sensible thinking person would distance themselves from discrimination or racism. As for your two-way street analogy, that may be true to an extent, but the white people have a much longer distance to travel on this street than the others.

[sparrow1988]

11 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

Boris is just stupid at times you will all admit that. An even if he was a genuine racist, he certainly wouldn't be so blatant in the public eye, no chance.

Maybe he is stupid enough to be so blatant in the public eye?

[sparrow1988]

1 hour ago, ml1dch said:

I'd be curious as well for the source of "The BBC would get there (sic) news from the ABC in Australia and they are Left leaning".

I expect that they'd rely on the dozens of BBC employees who live, work and report the news in Australia, for the BBC.

Does he honestly think that the way the BBC reports events from other countries is by sticking on the local news and jotting down some notes?

Nah, it’s a lad sitting in a flat in Clapham watching ABC on an illegal stream. 
 

Anyway, what is even the difference between ABC and BBC? One position in the alphabet? Coincidence? I think not. 

[bobzy]

On 15/07/2021 at 11:28, Panto_Villan said:

Have the players ever specifically said what they mean by "racism" or "racial equality"? Because those terms can have a lot of different interpretations these days.

I can't help feel like if what the protests were actually in aid of was a bit clearer, the debate would be less heated. If the players said the protest had the narrowest possible interpretation and was purely against racial abuse, I there would be less people disagreeing with the protest. If the players went to the other extreme and said the protests were in support of reparation payments to black people for the historical sins of slavery, I think fewer people would be being called racist for disagreeing with it.

It feels like some people are angry that others won't just get behind a simple anti-racism message, while others are annoyed that they are being called racist for not being 100% on board with a protest that might actually represent views on racism that are far from universally accepted. But it's hard to know how much people actually disagree with each other if there's no common definition of what the protests are hoping to achieve.

EDIT - of course, if they have specifically said it, feel free to link me and then ignore the rest of my post.

Let's be honest - it's pretty **** basic.  Taking the knee before a game is to take a stance against racism.  It doesn't need a footballer to come out and explain what is meant by anti-racism really, does it?

And that's why I think a lot of people on here feel flabbergasted that some other think anyone booing this may not be racist.

It's an incredibly clear message that has been clarified about a billion times and has been distanced from certain organisations about a billion times too.  Yet there are people who feel they should boo it.  They aren't racist, though, just... what?  Don't understand the situation?  Have a lack of clarity so they boo?  "Yeah mate, I'm booing because I don't understand why they're kneeling.  It just isn't clear to me, so I'm going to boo".  It's nonsense; you'd just ignore it like anything else in life that you don't understand.  This isn't that - it's an active stance against what is going on down on the pitch.

Nothing more, nothing less.

[StanBalaban]

4 hours ago, Davkaus said:

What's the difference?

I too would genuinely like to know what the difference is.

[CarryOnVilla]

People who saying this kind of gestures shouldn’t be part of football because it’s bringing politics into football. 
 

It’s really too late for that. politics that is racism has been part of football for eternity. All the campaigns there’s been to stop it like “kick it out” has been rather limp at actually confronting racists and actually kicking them out. 
 

black and other ethnic player get barraged with racist crap for anything from a bad game to having a particular colour for their boots. 

It’s more than fair these players make their own stand (or neel) to confront this pathetic behaviour.
 

it’s passive and it takes 10 seconds. A Great moment to reflect on 

if any prematch gesture that needs to be booed it’s standing for premier league and champions league anthems.  Actual corporate bullshine no one likes to see, hear or do. Yet I never hear a boo for them 

Edited July 16, 2021 by CarryOnVilla

[a m ole]

Hey @paul514, join the conversation if you have something to say. Laughing away on the periphery because you don’t know how to respond isn’t a good look.

[a m ole]

31 minutes ago, StanBalaban said:

I too would genuinely like to know what the difference is.

I’m trying to work out whether some haven’t grasped that it was a silly example used to highlight how dumb the argument is, or they genuinely believe that people feel like that about the England flag.

[Zatman]

32 minutes ago, a m ole said:

Hey @paul514, join the conversation if you have something to say. Laughing away on the periphery because you don’t know how to respond isn’t a good look.

pretty much a response of I know this conversation is way over my head so here is a laughing emoji to think I know better 

[lapal_fan]

Ahh look, it wasn't hackers, he was just a pissed up idiot - we all do silly things when we're drunk don't we?

ALL IS FORGIVEN! 

 

 

[StefanAVFC]

I can't believe we're back at All Lives Matter FFS

Nobody is saying 'ONLY black lives matter' so All Lives Matter isn't a coherent response to it.

It's essentially Black Lives Matter TOO.

Would you go up to a WWF activist chanting 'DOLPHIN LIVES MATTER' and say 'Actually mate, all animals that live in the ocean matter. Your activism is stupid.'

As for those booing not being racist.

If I was being very, very generous, the first time it happened, I'd give a pass. But the amount of clarifications since then, if you boo it now, you're racist, sorry.

Black people are telling white people that they're doing a harmless gesture because they're fed up of racism, and mostly white people are booing the gesture and saying that their issues are legit.

It's insane; 30 years from now we'll look back at this the same way we look back at race relations in the States in the Rosa Parks era.

 

[paul514]

2 hours ago, a m ole said:

Hey @paul514, join the conversation if you have something to say. Laughing away on the periphery because you don’t know how to respond isn’t a good look.

That's a good gif I looked like that as a child, minus the food.

As for reacting to posts, I'll carry on as I see fit. If you don't like laughing reactions then don't say laughable things.

[StefanAVFC]

What's laughable about my post Paul? I'd love to know so I could correct it. 

[StanBalaban]

14 minutes ago, paul514 said:

That's a good gif I looked like that as a child, minus the food.

As for reacting to posts, I'll carry on as I see fit. If you don't like laughing reactions then don't say laughable things.

I'm of Indian heritage, but born at Good Hope and brought up in Sutton. I've lived outside of the UK for 14 years now, but very much class myself as English as it's my home. My father passed away 2 years ago having come from India, having spent 50+ years of his life in the UK. It was his home too, and that's where he wanted to be laid to rest.

Over the years, I've suffered racial abuse from people I considered my fellow countrymen, and this has been right back from a young age. I've no problem if someone thinks I'm a word removed because I'm being a word removed, but to be abused simply on the colour of my skin makes little sense to me. 

I'm not one to dwell on historical abuses and abusers, nor am I particularly the sentimental type. However, when I see Villa players and those representing my country showing solidarity towards an important social issue, it warms my heart and gives me hope. If I was on that pitch, I would partake in whatever gesture it took to show a that whilst racism is real and sadly still endemic in 2021, there is a harmonious cross section of people that simply won't stand for it.

I'm not black. I have no allegiance with any given movement, I'm not a Marxist, as much as I can't imagine Jack Grealish is a Marxist. I'm a partner in a global wealth management firm, so I'm definitely not against capitalism.

However, I do feel a level of inclusiveness and solidarity by the statement on the pitch, which should give those who boo for the reasons they've given at least something to reconsider. Unless, of course, they're simply racist.

 

[Keyblade]

2 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

Ahh look, it wasn't hackers, he was just a pissed up idiot - we all do silly things when we're drunk don't we?

ALL IS FORGIVEN! 

 

 

Drunk words are sober thoughts etc.

[a m ole]

1 hour ago, paul514 said:

That's a good gif I looked like that as a child, minus the food.

As for reacting to posts, I'll carry on as I see fit. If you don't like laughing reactions then don't say laughable things.

I don’t dislike them, I find it hilarious that’s all you’ve got.

[romavillan]

1 hour ago, StanBalaban said:

I'm of Indian heritage, but born at Good Hope and brought up in Sutton. I've lived outside of the UK for 14 years now, but very much class myself as English as it's my home. My father passed away 2 years ago having come from India, having spent 50+ years of his life in the UK. It was his home too, and that's where he wanted to be laid to rest.

Over the years, I've suffered racial abuse from people I considered my fellow countrymen, and this has been right back from a young age. I've no problem if someone thinks I'm a word removed because I'm being a word removed, but to be abused simply on the colour of my skin makes little sense to me. 

I'm not one to dwell on historical abuses and abusers, nor am I particularly the sentimental type. However, when I see Villa players and those representing my country showing solidarity towards an important social issue, it warms my heart and gives me hope. If I was on that pitch, I would partake in whatever gesture it took to show a that whilst racism is real and sadly still endemic in 2021, there is a harmonious cross section of people that simply won't stand for it.

I'm not black. I have no allegiance with any given movement, I'm not a Marxist, as much as I can't imagine Jack Grealish is a Marxist. I'm a partner in a global wealth management firm, so I'm definitely not against capitalism.

However, I do feel a level of inclusiveness and solidarity by the statement on the pitch, which should give those who boo for the reasons they've given at least something to reconsider. Unless, of course, they're simply racist.

 

75% of polled US citizens after Martin Luther King was shot though he was a communist and most of those probably thought this made him a public danger. There's nothing new in this ploy from the far right to label anything they don't like as a red menace, marxist, loony left etc. etc. They know that a certain section of their support will be triggered by those terms to hate whatever is labelled that way. 

I've been out of the UK for 16 years myself, and I was born in Good Hope, what do you think about how things have changed in that time when you go back? I've not been back since covid hit unfortunately but the last time I did left a very bitter taste. I remember talking to a guy who's parents were Punjabi saying he was pretty scared about the turn things were taking and this just gutted me, like us he was born and brought up in Brum. Then I met a lecturer in law at Cov uni who was from Pakistan on the plane back here who had got complaints from rich white students about his accent being out of place, and was worried about how his wife and kids might be treated if he stayed. 

When I left the UK I proudly used to proudly call out openly fascist clearings in the woods over here in Italy and make the point that that sort of attitude (basically white supremacy tropes, replacement of native population myths, racial purity etc. were the most popular lines of bullshit) was bang out of order in the UK and had been for 20 odd years. Last week right wing Italian politicians were decrying the scenes in London, the violence and the bitter racist abuse that followed the final. It really beggars belief to be honest. It's just so sad what has happened in such a short space of time.

[Davkaus]

Great video, and I welcome the views of people who think kneeling signals marxist intent.

 

[StanBalaban]

41 minutes ago, romavillan said:

75% of polled US citizens after Martin Luther King was shot though he was a communist and most of those probably thought this made him a public danger. There's nothing new in this ploy from the far right to label anything they don't like as a red menace, marxist, loony left etc. etc. They know that a certain section of their support will be triggered by those terms to hate whatever is labelled that way. 

I've been out of the UK for 16 years myself, and I was born in Good Hope, what do you think about how things have changed in that time when you go back? I've not been back since covid hit unfortunately but the last time I did left a very bitter taste. I remember talking to a guy who's parents were Punjabi saying he was pretty scared about the turn things were taking and this just gutted me, like us he was born and brought up in Brum. Then I met a lecturer in law at Cov uni who was from Pakistan on the plane back here who had got complaints from rich white students about his accent being out of place, and was worried about how his wife and kids might be treated if he stayed. 

When I left the UK I proudly used to proudly call out openly fascist clearings in the woods over here in Italy and make the point that that sort of attitude (basically white supremacy tropes, replacement of native population myths, racial purity etc. were the most popular lines of bullshit) was bang out of order in the UK and had been for 20 odd years. Last week right wing Italian politicians were decrying the scenes in London, the violence and the bitter racist abuse that followed the final. It really beggars belief to be honest. It's just so sad what has happened in such a short space of time.

It's difficult to comment on returning to the UK as I effectively adopt the role of a tourist. The scenarios of encountering large groups on the street is somewhat mitigated by being picked up at the hotel and driven straight to the bar or restaurant .

I will say however that my friends and I love to travel, and a mate suggested a boys trip to Moscow recently which made me feel somewhat apprehensive. It's scenarios like going from bar to bar on foot in unfamiliar locations that I still factor in when deciding on places to visit.

[paul514]

3 hours ago, StanBalaban said:

I'm of Indian heritage, but born at Good Hope and brought up in Sutton. I've lived outside of the UK for 14 years now, but very much class myself as English as it's my home. My father passed away 2 years ago having come from India, having spent 50+ years of his life in the UK. It was his home too, and that's where he wanted to be laid to rest.

Over the years, I've suffered racial abuse from people I considered my fellow countrymen, and this has been right back from a young age. I've no problem if someone thinks I'm a word removed because I'm being a word removed, but to be abused simply on the colour of my skin makes little sense to me. 

I'm not one to dwell on historical abuses and abusers, nor am I particularly the sentimental type. However, when I see Villa players and those representing my country showing solidarity towards an important social issue, it warms my heart and gives me hope. If I was on that pitch, I would partake in whatever gesture it took to show a that whilst racism is real and sadly still endemic in 2021, there is a harmonious cross section of people that simply won't stand for it.

I'm not black. I have no allegiance with any given movement, I'm not a Marxist, as much as I can't imagine Jack Grealish is a Marxist. I'm a partner in a global wealth management firm, so I'm definitely not against capitalism.

However, I do feel a level of inclusiveness and solidarity by the statement on the pitch, which should give those who boo for the reasons they've given at least something to reconsider. Unless, of course, they're simply racist.

 

Hi, I haven't disputed that some racism exists...