Racism in Football

[DCJonah]

29 minutes ago, TRO said:

I have no issue, with them taking the knee, so I am not coming back at them at all....that's your interpretation, because, I am more keen to examine the motives of both sides.

In order for communities to co-exist amicably balance is key.....and fairness on both sides has to prosper.

I am merely saying all angles need to be explored, before coming to conclusions....but "all lives do matter" are you saying they don't?

[foreveryoung]

17 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I think you missed my questions @foreveryoung

I'm not against anti-racism in football, I against how it is presented at football matches, taking the knee was never a good way to spread the message.

An anyway who says it's working, Zaha certainly don't and he is on the frontline, where's the proof?

 

[ml1dch]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

That's your personal view, and one I most definately do not share.....I would suggest a fair old section of the public, who overwhelmingly voted for him at the last election, would disagree with that too.

shameful allegation, without foundation.

You might have missed this, but a fair old section of the public are the absolute worst.

[Ingram85]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Boris Johnson is not a racist....don't be a strawman.

A lot of Watermelon smiles beg to differ 

[QldVilla]

6 hours ago, sparrow1988 said:

I have read about it before (books/newspaper/websites) and thought it was a good idea to fact check it before I posted it as you had asked me to share my thoughts on racism in Australia. As opposed to writing unsubstantiated bullshit. As for the comment from my sister in law, I have no reason to doubt the veracity of what she said, why should you? That's like me doubting that you saying that you have a friend that is an Aborigine. I have no reason to believe that it is not true so why should you doubt what I am telling you? If we're not going to take what we're saying to each other at face value then why bother discussing the topic? I'll try again anyway.

She was standing up for muslim women? If you believe that then you'll believe anything. Why, if she is so interested in women's rights is she not campaigning against a catholic nun's uniform? Anti-immigrant is a common theme throughout her politics. As for Fraser Anning, here is the article I read a few years back and an excerpt from the article. Please tell me where I said something that wasn't in this article.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-45191315 - Remember people voted this guy in to the senate and therefore he is representative of a portion of Australian society.

An Australian senator has been widely condemned for a speech that invoked the term "final solution" in a call for immigration restrictions based on race.

Fraser Anning, from the conservative Katter's Australian Party, called for migration bans on Muslims and others in his maiden Senate speech on Tuesday.

Political opponents denounced his speech as "disgraceful". Mr Anning said he did not need to apologise.

"Final solution" was a term infamously used by the Nazis during the Holocaust.

In his speech, Mr Anning said "the final solution to the immigration problem is a popular vote".

On Wednesday, lawmakers across the political divide moved to pass parliamentary motions censuring Mr Anning for his "racist hate speech", noting in particular his use of the phrase "final solution", and his "false, misleading and hurtful statements" about Muslim Australians and other immigrant groups.

Also, there are many parts of the world which were never invaded by a different race. Ireland for example was invaded a few times. Always by white people (the Vikings, the Normans and then the British). The UK by the Vikings, the Normans and the Romans (all white, granted the Romans had a bit of a tan but they are from the Mediteranean).

Re the aboriginal people - of course they have challenges due to being oppressed, vilified and discriminated against for centuries. And of course they have trouble integrating. Is it possible that they have trouble integrating because their country was invaded, taken away from them (terra nullius) and they were forced to completely change their way of life or face not being allowed become part of this great new society? And just because Australia has relatively recently started to fund these communities doesn't mean they are going to automatically flick a switch and all of a sudden trust their oppressors of the last 200 years? But how wide of the mark was I by saying that they were displaced and that there is an anti-aborigine rhetoric in the country caused by policies such as the White Australia Policy of the past? Is that not true?

I know some of the facts. I know that there are low rates of literacy and numeracy, high rates of alcoholism, suicide, crime within the aboriginal communties. I know that Australia funds these communities through reparations or some similar system. I also know that they are very poorly integrated in to society.

And for the racial abuse that you suffered, I am sorry to hear that. IMO, the root cause of that is also the white people's treatment of the Aboriginals in the preceding 200 years and the fact that they don't trust the white man but seriously why would they?

Ah, so you quote news from media organisations to support your point of view? They wouldn’t have an agenda, would they? The BBC would get there news from the ABC in Australia and they are Left leaning.

Again, he worded his comments poorly by using the term final solution, it was insensitive, not racist and as I said he was chased out of parliamanet. Don’t talk about he was elected unless you understand how the senate works. It goes on parties, parties get votes and seats are appointed on the percentage of the vote, if I remember correctly his party received about 0.7 more votes than the 4th Labor candidate in that state. Also he commented in his speech about the muslims issues with terrorist radicalisation and how we need to be careful who we let into the country, wanna guess how many terrorist plots the federal police have uncovered and how many of these Australian muslims went over to fight with Isis? Surprised you missed this….

I didn’t say she was interested in woman’s rights, she was interested in people being oppressed, maybe do some proper research, rather than quoting snippets that support your narrative. These woman were in Australia, a free country, we don’t have the religious restrictions of some middle eastern countries who allow this discrimination under religious law. It was a stunt, the media play it up and you fell for it. You call Australia racist then you quote a politician undertaking a stunt to highlight their religious persecution as evidence, really?

The problem with your point of the aborigines is there is two narratives, there’s the lefts mantra which says it was invaded, but the reality is history tells us that a penal colony was set up. It took decades in negotiation with local tribesman/ elders where small settlements moved out beyond those penal colonies, but there was no invasion, they weren’t enslaved. Some people who understand history would also tell you that Holland was the first country to come across Western Australia and could have settled like they did in South Africa, which potentially been far worse than a British penal colony, sorry invasion. Any country could have come across Australia and colonised it, but the British with their history in Africa and elsewhere and there anti-slavery stance was a far far better outcome than what may of occurred with some other countries. 

The point being at some point someone would have found Australia whether in the 1800s or early 1900s, what if it had been the Germans, Japanese, Chinese, something far worse may of occurred.

What you also gloss over was the introduction of Mabo legislation in the past 40 years, the prime minister saying sorry in parliament to the lost generation children taken away from their parents, the high court awarding compensation for lands that had been taken from aboriginal people, $300m annually to support these communities to improve education, in areas where there local abaoriginal tribes the elders play roles in local council for development approvals, etc etc etc. Australia over the past 60-70 years has gone out of its way to try to correct the wrongs on the previous 150 years, it’s not perfect, some of those decisions were believed to been in in good faith to help the aboriginal people at the time, but this country is certainly not acting as a racist one, as you have inferred and is continually looking to make changes.

The only people who use the word invaded in this country are those on the left hand side of politics, not surprising that it’s a term you used considering your defence of your buddies at BLM. It’s a term used to divide Australians and make things out to be worse than what things actually are. Those people aren’t interested in history or makings things for the better, just wanting to tear things down.

The problem you have is that we all came from the same valley in Africa, they were all black and as they moved out over the planet some developed lighter skin to suit the climate. So while you quote white, because it’s divisive and suits your narrative, we all came from the same place.

[foreveryoung]

6 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

A lot of Watermelon smiles beg to differ 

Boris is just stupid at times you will all admit that. An even if he was a genuine racist, he certainly wouldn't be so blatant in the public eye, no chance.

[Ingram85]

17 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Boris is just stupid at times you will all admit that. An even if he was a genuine racist, he certainly wouldn't be so blatant in the public eye, no chance.

Letterboxes? Piccaninnies?

[foreveryoung]

1 minute ago, Ingram85 said:

Letterboxes? Piccaninnies?

Yeah, like I said stupid. The letterbox comment was not racist, but unfortunately it did promote it at the time. 

[DCJonah]

51 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Boris is just stupid at times you will all admit that. An even if he was a genuine racist, he certainly wouldn't be so blatant in the public eye, no chance.

I find it so strange that anyone would go out of their way to defend racists so much. What does it actually take for you to consider someone as racist?

[tom_avfc]

1 minute ago, DCJonah said:

I find it so strange that anyone would go out of their way to defend racists so much. What does it actually take for you to consider someone as racist?

It’s just Boris being “stupid” not racist is an interesting take to say the least. Reading this thread is pretty painful in general.

At the point that we get to “all lives do matter - are you saying they don’t?” I’ve come to the conclusion that there’s no reasoning with some people.

Unfortunately looking at the people who are consistently elected to run the country it seems like there’s a large proportion of people in this country who are (wilfully or not) completely ignorant to the issues we have with racial equality.

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

I'm not against anti-racism in football, I against how it is presented at football matches, taking the knee was never a good way to spread the message.

An anyway who says it's working, Zaha certainly don't and he is on the frontline, where's the proof?

 

Oh ok. Because you said you didn’t want football to be used for “these kinds of messages”, ie anti racism. You didn’t specify how they were doing it. Have you always had a problem with anti racism messages in football? Or just this one? Why?

 

Its working because it’s spreading the message more than ever before. And all the racists are angry about it. To stop it now would be letting them win. The more they boo, the more it needs to stay

[Stevo985]

46 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Yeah, like I said stupid. The letterbox comment was not racist, but unfortunately it did promote it at the time. 

It very much is racist. As is Boris

[OutByEaster?]

The cross of St George is the symbol of the National Front, therefore anyone that is waving it, even though they might claim it's just for patriotism or whatever is actually supporting the NF, they believe the same things that the NF believes.

That's the argument right?

 

[fruitvilla]

My wife has tried the line all white people are racist on me. Now I am not sure I believe it, but for the moment can we assume it is true and move on from this unproductive finger pointing?

What can be done about the inequalities across, race, gender anything else we can think of?

[ml1dch]

7 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

The cross of St George is the symbol of the National Front, therefore anyone that is waving it, even though they might claim it's just for patriotism or whatever is actually supporting the NF, they believe the same things that the NF believes.

That's the argument right?

 

Seems like a pretty coherent position to me. 

You might hear all sorts of arguments about how the symbol predates the NF, but for a section of the public the association to the political movement is just too strong now.

The sensible thing would be for both sides to settle on a new symbol, free of all the baggage that a small minority have brought to it.

Some of us just don't want to see football politicised in that way.

[foreveryoung]

8 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

The cross of St George is the symbol of the National Front, therefore anyone that is waving it, even though they might claim it's just for patriotism or whatever is actually supporting the NF, they believe the same things that the NF believes.

That's the argument right?

 

I'd say anyone that agrees with this is part of the problem.

[sparrow1988]

9 hours ago, QldVilla said:

Ah, so you quote news from media organisations to support your point of view? They wouldn’t have an agenda, would they? The BBC would get there news from the ABC in Australia and they are Left leaning.

Again, he worded his comments poorly by using the term final solution, it was insensitive, not racist and as I said he was chased out of parliamanet. Don’t talk about he was elected unless you understand how the senate works. It goes on parties, parties get votes and seats are appointed on the percentage of the vote, if I remember correctly his party received about 0.7 more votes than the 4th Labor candidate in that state. Also he commented in his speech about the muslims issues with terrorist radicalisation and how we need to be careful who we let into the country, wanna guess how many terrorist plots the federal police have uncovered and how many of these Australian muslims went over to fight with Isis? Surprised you missed this….

I didn’t say she was interested in woman’s rights, she was interested in people being oppressed, maybe do some proper research, rather than quoting snippets that support your narrative. These woman were in Australia, a free country, we don’t have the religious restrictions of some middle eastern countries who allow this discrimination under religious law. It was a stunt, the media play it up and you fell for it. You call Australia racist then you quote a politician undertaking a stunt to highlight their religious persecution as evidence, really?

The problem with your point of the aborigines is there is two narratives, there’s the lefts mantra which says it was invaded, but the reality is history tells us that a penal colony was set up. It took decades in negotiation with local tribesman/ elders where small settlements moved out beyond those penal colonies, but there was no invasion, they weren’t enslaved. Some people who understand history would also tell you that Holland was the first country to come across Western Australia and could have settled like they did in South Africa, which potentially been far worse than a British penal colony, sorry invasion. Any country could have come across Australia and colonised it, but the British with their history in Africa and elsewhere and there anti-slavery stance was a far far better outcome than what may of occurred with some other countries. 

The point being at some point someone would have found Australia whether in the 1800s or early 1900s, what if it had been the Germans, Japanese, Chinese, something far worse may of occurred.

What you also gloss over was the introduction of Mabo legislation in the past 40 years, the prime minister saying sorry in parliament to the lost generation children taken away from their parents, the high court awarding compensation for lands that had been taken from aboriginal people, $300m annually to support these communities to improve education, in areas where there local abaoriginal tribes the elders play roles in local council for development approvals, etc etc etc. Australia over the past 60-70 years has gone out of its way to try to correct the wrongs on the previous 150 years, it’s not perfect, some of those decisions were believed to been in in good faith to help the aboriginal people at the time, but this country is certainly not acting as a racist one, as you have inferred and is continually looking to make changes.

The only people who use the word invaded in this country are those on the left hand side of politics, not surprising that it’s a term you used considering your defence of your buddies at BLM. It’s a term used to divide Australians and make things out to be worse than what things actually are. Those people aren’t interested in history or makings things for the better, just wanting to tear things down.

The problem you have is that we all came from the same valley in Africa, they were all black and as they moved out over the planet some developed lighter skin to suit the climate. So while you quote white, because it’s divisive and suits your narrative, we all came from the same place.

There are so many holes in your post that I don't know where to start but here we go...

ABC are left leaning? Seriously? They are the equivalent of the BBC in the UK, a fairly centrist organisation who do a pretty good job of presenting the news in a neutral way. There is no way to present what Fraser Anning said that doesn't come across as leftist to right wing lunatics. And hold on, did I misquote him like you said or did he word it poorly? Calling for a final solution with regards to the problem of the amount immigrants coming in to the country is no way racist? Fair enough mate. His party still got voted in by people of that state, marginally or not. Here is what it says on the Australian government website. You know the process already but the votes of the people of that state got him elected.

Senators are elected by a system of proportional representation which ensures that the proportion of seats won by each party in each State or Territory closely reflects the proportion of the votes gained by that party in that State or Territory.

You said that she was interested in helping the women that were oppressed. If that's not women's rights then I don't know what is. Strange that she is only interested in the women that are Muslim women.

I know that they weren't enslaved but to say that the country wasn't invaded is just bullshit. You even mentioned that there has been no country in the world that hasn't been invaded and now your saying that the country wasn't invaded. Make your mind up. There was a literally a law introduced to say that the land belonged to nobody at the time of occupation and the land then taken from the people who were living there. The British anti-slavery stance? You're talking through your arse here. They stopped trading slaves in 1807. The first penal colony was established in 1788. Before this they were among the biggest if not the biggest slave traders in the world. Granted it was probably on the wane for the previous hundred years or so but anti-slavery? Come on.

And for something worse could have happened, that's all conjecture. We are discussing what did happen. Not what might have happened had Captain Cook's ship sank in the pacific in 1770.

I know about the attempts to integrate the Aborigine community in the last half a century or so. That is obviously very positive. I never denied this or said that Australia doesn't try to rectify it. You asked me about racism in Australia and I gave you my opinion based on facts. I just said there is a problem with racism in Australia resulting from policies of the past. My point is and has been that there is a legacy racism and in the last few years, as is the trend globally, this racism has bubbled up again. For example with the rise of parties such as The One Nation Party in Australia, UKIP/ Brexit Party in the UK, AFD in Germany, Le Pen's party in France, the rise of Trump in the US. If you can't see that then I don't know what I can do to make it any clearer.

Anyway, this is the racism in football thread not the racism in Australia thread so I'm just going to leave it now. As for your BLM and black lives matter comments, maybe mute/block the term because you're obviously triggered by it and have serious issues with it.

[ml1dch]

13 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

ABC are left leaning? Seriously? They are the equivalent of the BBC in the UK, a fairly centrist organisation who do a pretty good job of presenting the news in a neutral way

I'd be curious as well for the source of "The BBC would get there (sic) news from the ABC in Australia and they are Left leaning".

I expect that they'd rely on the dozens of BBC employees who live, work and report the news in Australia, for the BBC.

Does he honestly think that the way the BBC reports events from other countries is by sticking on the local news and jotting down some notes?

[Davkaus]

43 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I'd say anyone that agrees with this is part of the problem.

What's the difference?

[Zatman]

9 hours ago, fruitvilla said:

My wife has tried the line all white people are racist on me. Now I am not sure I believe it, but for the moment can we assume it is true and move on from this unproductive finger pointing?

What can be done about the inequalities across, race, gender anything else we can think of?

I dont think all white people are racist but to hear white people talking about racism is quite frustrating as we haven't a clue because we never suffered from it. Its like a bunch of blokes criticising feminism when they have no real idea why its an issue for women. I am assuming a majority of posters on this topic are white and male