Racism in Football

[Mic09]

21 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

That's the problem I'm referring to. The term shouldn't have to be associated with evil, but evidently it is. It's such a charged term and that's why there's so much contention on even innocuous gestures like taking a knee before a football match. Nobody wants to be associated with evil.

Stephen isn't a racist, but he makes racist decisions at his workplace. Decisions that have very significant ramifications. He's not evil, but he's ignorant. It's nothing a little education can't change. If he changed his hiring practices he'd probably see how silly he was being. You don't need the KKK to be in power for there to be systemic racism. Good guys like Stephens with misplaced intentions are enough to keep the machine chugging along.

I'm not sure how we get over this unnecessarily negative stigma of the word racism because for one, you could argue the stigma is warranted given the history of the term. Who wants to be associated with some of the worst atrocities in recent history? The problem is, these events were all borne out of the same seemingly innocuous ignorance that Stephen displays. 

The good thing is I think we both are seeing the best "end game" in a similar fashion.

But I'm often worried, what if Richard was a better candidate than Sarjeevan and Stephen simply picked the better guy? What if someone accuses Stephen of being a racist, without knowing all the minor details of his decision making?

What if Sarjeevan build negative feelings because he is told that's "racism" ? A term you rightly noticed is negatively charged? 

What if that happened to him before, and he now blames "white middle aged guys" for his lack of success, rather than other factors?

What if Stephen's less tolerant friend gets pissed off at Sarjeevan because he, by association, feels like he is branded as a racist because he also hires and is also white? 

Its a bitch of a discussion and no good answers so I think we can just agree that we should care and respect and honour each other no matter religion, race, gender, or any other thing that might make us "different".

But like I said, we have made massive steps forward over the last 100 years so I hope we continue in a similar trajectory. 

[HanoiVillan]

We're getting way off topic here, but my fairly brief experience of being in a role hiring people and organising a team left me with the very firm conclusion that diversity - of gender, race, class, route into the career, and several other things besides - led to a better and more effective team than a more homogenous one. I say that not to be 'woke' - having a team of nearly all women worked about as badly as a team of nearly all men, I'm not just pushing positive discrimination here - but because it was really my experience. People with different backgrounds and experiences brought different skills and personalities to the role and it was just better.

[Villaphan04]

Just had a read of this and man it’s very powerful.

 

 

[Keyblade]

1 hour ago, Villaphan04 said:

Just had a read of this and man it’s very powerful.

 

 

Damn, that hit me hard. He's so right about people not wanting to listen. Most people are always so defensive, trying to re-draw the lines of racism so a particular person or incident conveniently falls outside it etc. It's so frustrating. Really hope he gets to lift that trophy this weekend. 

The thing that surprised me the most in that whole article was the part about De Rossi. Literally the last person you'd have pegged to be like that

[Zatman]

4 hours ago, Keyblade said:

Damn, that hit me hard. He's so right about people not wanting to listen. Most people are always so defensive, trying to re-draw the lines of racism so a particular person or incident conveniently falls outside it etc. It's so frustrating. Really hope he gets to lift that trophy this weekend. 

The thing that surprised me the most in that whole article was the part about De Rossi. Literally the last person you'd have pegged to be like that

why?

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, Zatman said:

why?

He just had that vibe, given that he was a nasty player on the pitch, was from Rome and looks like if he wasn't a footballer would be a Lazio Ultra or something . An example of why you shouldn't judge a book by its cover.

[Zatman]

25 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

He just had that vibe, given that he was a nasty player on the pitch, was from Rome and looks like if he wasn't a footballer would be a Lazio Ultra or something . An example of why you shouldn't judge a book by its cover.

Thats it though what happens on the pitch is a lot different than than outside. People probably say similar about Mings if they only saw him on the pitch

[Davkaus]

Don't rate him at his job, but I have a lot of respect for Southgate as a person, well done to him for speaking out against this

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jun/03/gareth-southgate-england-fans-boos-taking-knee

Quote

Gareth Southgate has hit out at the section of fans who booed when England’s players took the knee before their friendly win against Austria at the Riverside Stadium on Wednesday night.

Southgate cut an angry figure after the anti-racism gesture was greeted by loud boos just before kick-off. On a night when the right-back Trent Alexander-Arnold sustained a thigh injury during the closing stages – Southgate said he will be assessed in the next two days – the manager defended his players and stressed the act of taking a knee should not be seen as a political message.

“I did hear it,” Southgate said. “It’s not something on behalf of our black players I wanted to hear because it feels as though it’s a criticism of them. I think we have got a situation where some people seem to think it’s a political stand that they don’t agree with. That’s not the reason the players are doing it. We’re supporting each other. I was pleased that was drowned out by the majority of the crowd.“We can’t deny the fact that it happened. I think the most important thing for our players to know is all their teammates and all the staff are very supportive. I think the majority of people understand it. I think some people aren’t quite understanding the message. I suppose we’re seeing that across a number of football grounds at the moment.”

 

[tomav84]

1 hour ago, Davkaus said:

Don't rate him at his job, but I have a lot of respect for Southgate as a person, well done to him for speaking out against this

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jun/03/gareth-southgate-england-fans-boos-taking-knee

 

said it after the chelsea game. we just need to clap straight away to drown it out. people will always boo, citing the latest buzzwords of marxsim, BLM, woke, virtue signalling blah blah blah. it's up to everyone else to make sure they know that their views will not be heard

we're passed the point of educating them now. it's been said by players and managers till they're blue in the face that it's not a political gesture and yet the boos continue

[Wainy316]

The irony is, the people in the Tory ravaged run down slum of Middlesbrough might actually benefit from something resembling Marxism.  

It isn't about that at all though, they haven't a clue what it even is for the most part.

[Mic09]

What I think would be a good idea is a sleeve advert on each shirt with 'say no to racism'. 

It would also be a natural next step in the campaign.

I am fully for the fight against racism in sport, but think that kneeling has got to a point now where it's becoming a bit of a diluted message. Will English players kneel forever? Can you somehow stop it without a moral backlash? Most of the football world doesn't take the knee but that doesn't mean they are 'more racist' or 'less virtuous'. 

A 'say no to racism' advert on shirt would be a stronger message as each one of the idiotic boo brigade would have to wear it on the shirt they buy each season. 

I don't know if I would take the knee forever. But I would happily wear that shirt. 

[Wainy316]

I was of the mind that maybe this specific gesture should be retired but now for as long as it is being boo'd it should definitely be continued.

Can't let these knuckle draggers feel like they've won.

[MessiWillSignForVilla]

The grand irony is that when these troglodytes boo the players kneeling, they actually give it a purpose.

It's no longer performative, it's a **** you to the fans booing, and you keep doing it until they shut the **** up and actually listen to what you're trying to say.

[desensitized43]

2 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

I was of the mind that maybe this specific gesture should be retired but now for as long as it is being boo'd it should definitely be continued.

Can't let these knuckle draggers feel like they've won.

100% agree. I thought it was becoming a bit of a tired empty gensture but the moment the fans came back in and started booing I changed immediately.

The thing is, when it started there was almost universal praise for what they were doing but you soon started to see in the right wing press and social media lies about BLM being a bunch of communists wanting to pull down the capitalist system. As you said, the irony is that  the systems these fools have been brainwashed into holding sacrosanct have failed them utterly but they're too foolish to see it

[Wainy316]

Thing is, even if BLM as an organisation happened to actively promote baby eating, it has been stressed numerous times that the gesture is not tied to any particular 'organisation' and is about the wider message of equality.

How must the black players feel when their own fans are booing them for this?  All the while they log onto social media to find a barrage of personal racist abuse in their inboxes.

[tomav84]

1 hour ago, MessiWillSignForVilla said:

The grand irony is that when these troglodytes boo the players kneeling, they actually give it a purpose.

It's no longer performative, it's a **** you to the fans booing, and you keep doing it until they shut the **** up and actually listen to what you're trying to say.

this is so true. if there was no reaction it would just run it's course and fizzle out naturally

i do want to hear from someone that has booed it though. one or 2 popped up on here after the chelsea game but crawled back under a hole when presented with the facts about how the gesture is nowt to do with BLM.

they just seem incapable of rationally explaining their reasons for booing. i'd have more respect if they actually entered into a reasonable dialogue and gave their reasons rather than just grumbling blah blah marxism blah blah

[Zatman]

16 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

this is so true. if there was no reaction it would just run it's course and fizzle out naturally

i do want to hear from someone that has booed it though. one or 2 popped up on here after the chelsea game but crawled back under a hole when presented with the facts about how the gesture is nowt to do with BLM.

they just seem incapable of rationally explaining their reasons for booing. i'd have more respect if they actually entered into a reasonable dialogue and gave their reasons rather than just grumbling blah blah marxism blah blah

Eh eh but the marxism

[Jonesy7211]

What I don't get, is that even you don't understand the BLM movement or the meaning inferred when taking a knee, is that by actively booing you're in effect standing against equality. Would they boo the miner's strikes in the 80's? Would they boo the poll tax rioters, or the march against the National Front and more latterly the BNP? If the fans in attendance last night were told that their behaving is leaning towards fascism, would they then understand the gravity of their reactions? Yes the actions of football are against racism specifically, but the reactions from the fans feels like it has even further reaching consequences. Open your minds you idiots, there's more at stake here than you realize.

[ThunderPower_14]

We had a very similar problem in the Australian Football League (Aussie Rules) a few years ago with a great Aboriginal player by the name of Adam Goodes.

Goodes was a brilliant player, winning the league's best and fairest award twice. He was a prominent Indigenous Australian and was an activist against racism, and that came to a head when he was called an ape by a teenage girl sitting in the front row at a game. He pointed to the girl and she was removed. He then backed his stance in a very gracious and reasonable way publicly, stating that it was not a teenage girl's fault but a wider societal problem with racism. His activism (as well as other extensive community work) saw him named Australian of the Year.

However as time went on after the incident, people in the crowd started to boo him. He was a tough, physical player and certainly earned the odd boo because of his play, but it wasn't really about that. People just booed, and crowds just sort of get caught up in the mob and boo. When you'd single out individuals and ask them why they were booing, they couldn't really answer except to say that they don't like him because of the way he carries himself etc, but he'd been in the league for over a decade before the booing started and was a widely respected pillar of the game. The booing was because he'd stood up for himself against racism and spoken out against wider societal racism. Racists don't like it, they boo, and then people in a football crowd get caught up in that and boo as well.

When it's pointed out to them that they're booing for racists reasons, people are disgusted that you'd accuse them of that, but that's what's happening. They convince themselves that they're booing because they don't like the message or the person delivering it or how it's being delivered or whatever, but however you'd like to spin it, you're joining in on booing people because they're standing up against racism. You're engaging in a racist action. You're racist.

The media didn't do enough at the time to call out this booing for what it was. It's debatable that would even have worked, because nothing garners more boos than telling a crowd not to boo, but the media needed to shape the narrative better and they didn't. Eventually a few years later a brilliant documentary came out about the last few years of Goodes' career and the booing, and laid bare exactly what was going on. It was incredibly powerful and I hope some people learned from it.

[Keyblade]

I remember reading a joke the other day that went:

"The 2 things racists hate the most are:

1. Being called racist.

2. Black people."

Couldn't have been more on the mark. That shit is like kryptonite for them. Which I don't really get, but I think it has a lot to do with cowardice. It's why I have a grudging respect for the open KKK types. At least you know where they stand.