El Zen Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 the step though is about understanding that there is a reaction to any action check out how amy reacts after three warnings to it .... I think taking away a privilege is far more effective, imo. The "naughty step" just seems to me as if it would lose it's effect after a while. Teaching kids that they actually have to earn their priviliges through behaving well is what it's about. I personally believe that any sort of additional punishment, beyond taking away a privilege, won't really do any good when raising a child. My mum is a primary school teacher, and a bloody good one at that, and she raised me using this philosophy and applies the same approach when she teaches. What privilege does she take away? I'd like to know!! Nothing works in all the schools I've been at; breaks, sports, golden time, none of it... It works along the lines of rewarding good behaviour, really. She'll make deals with the children, and if they keep their part of the agreement my mum will give them some kind of reward. If they don't, then there will be no extra priviliges. The rewards can be anything from my mum reading from a funny book, through golden stars, to fun trips to interesting places (they're nine, mind you). They key is to be consistent, firm but fair, and make it very clear when something is unacceptable. On the other side, it's extremely important to be warm, caring and understanding. The way the kids in my mum's class respect her and absolutely adore her at the same time is quite remarkable, I admire her very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 I also am of the belief that a healthy and fit child will behave alot better... As a general rule, I absolutely agree. Poor health affects the mood, and eating wrong will cause grumpy, impacient behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 However, I believe smacking is both unnecessary (there are better and smarter ways), i think you have to appreciate i'm talking last resort and not first resort .. of course there a re better ways and fingers crossed i'll always find them , but as i said if it comes down to it then it's a path i'm prepared to go down . And for some (maybe even most) kids, being smacked sends out a signal that it's okay to solve a problem with physical means. will have to disagree with you on this one ... i've never laid hands on anyone ,same way that despite playing 3 games of football a week for years i never got booked .. surely from what you're saying I would have reacted to every bad challenge made on me (beleive me there were a lot) ... but i'm not that sort of person ....all it taught me was that if you do wrong you face the consequences .. something that i get the impression kids today are not bothered about but I hope you'll reconsider your views on smacking and clips. well it's never come to it yet , but if we are all still around on here in 12 years time when Harvey is 15 we can have another chat about it :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 12, 2008 Moderator Share Posted January 12, 2008 Déjà vu. Myself and Michelsen have locked horns on this topic in here before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 i think you have to appreciate i'm talking last resort and not first resort .. of course there a re better ways and fingers crossed i'll always find them , but as i said if it comes down to it then it's a path i'm prepared to go down . I know that, Tony. I'm just saying that it should be necessary to go down that path at all, and I honestly don't believe you'll have to either. will have to disagree with you on this one ... i've never laid hands on anyone ,same way that despite playing 3 games of football a week for years i never got booked .. surely from what you're saying I would have reacted to every bad challenge made on me (beleive me there were a lot) ... but i'm not that sort of person ....all it taught me was that if you do wrong you face the consequences .. something that i get the impression kids today are not bothered about No, what I was saying was that some (or maybe many) kids will have a negative response to smacking. You were fine, as were many others, but it's not worth taking the risk when you know there are better and more effective methods of teaching consequences available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 The rewards can be anything from my mum reading from a funny book but , what if your mum's been bad and the child good ..isn't your mum getting an undeserved reward by reading the funny book ? ok ..on that poor post i'm off to bed , got to drive upto VP tomorrow and ought to get some sleep ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Déjà vu. Myself and Michelsen have locked horns on this topic in here before. Quite right, Bri. I feel as if I've locked horns with the entire VT comminity on this topic before, to be honest Funny thing is, I don't think you would see this sort of debate on a Norwegian forum. In Norway, smacking your child is very much socially unacceptable. Whereas in Britain it seems most people don't really have a problem with it. I'm not trying to make any kind of rhetorical point here, I just find it interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 12, 2008 Moderator Share Posted January 12, 2008 I think the old informal backhand clip 'round the ear in a kind of 'quit it' gesture is still the accepted norm in rural Ireland None of your sciency mumbojumbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 I think the old informal backhand clip 'round the ear in a kind of 'quit it' gesture is still the accepted norm in rural Ireland None of your sciency mumbojumbo. Have a good night, Bri, and the rest of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjw63 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Definitely a parental problem. My three are 18, 15 and 12. I've NEVER had to give them a good hiding, hardly any slaps either. They were/are all good students. They are not mouthy to me or anyone else. They dont smoke They dont drink to excess ;-) They dont throw crap on the floor. All I had to do was shout at em, which wasnt too difficult ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsjg80 Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 Interesting reading. Maybe I'm just in some bad schools, if they don't want ANY of the rewards then there is no punishment in taking away any of them. They have no interest in funny books, or stickers or anything. They really could just be zombies!! Right off to the match now, and I can forget all this rubbish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villab0y Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 I agree with Ian on this, the naughty step is very effective. My 5 year old KNOWS not to push his luck, it doesnt even take verbal warnings now, just a look. The main thing is following up your threats, last saturday for instance he was being a real pain, cheeky, tantrums etc. Which to be honest is really not like him. Well that evening him and my wife were meant to be going to see a show at the nec, he was told over and over if his behaviour didnt improve he wouldnt go. Guess what..it didnt and he didnt go. He's back to his golden self now....Dont make empty threats, kids are cleverer than you think.. My 20month old likes the naughty step.. the stairs come into our lounge so she goes and sits there.. so for her, we make her sit on the floor where ever she is.. She hates it. Best thing is it can be implemented anywhere, theres always a floor and everboys house has a naughty step. Kids these days are out of control but it is down to parenting, I had a rant in another mthread a few weeks back about parents and my boys school school swearing AT there kids, calling them little bastards for needing the toilet etc... My boy is polite, friendly, caring and all the things a parent would want from there kid. He's not a bully, he wont ever be, he's smart and in the top 5 of his class (teachers words). Parents have alot to answer for these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Anyone who is between 37 plus is partly to blame for the problems we are having with kids. We have completely lost sight of common sense in parenting and we are a scared nation terrified of everything including discipline. The fear factor is ridiculous in the country, we do not have pedos everywhere, not everywhere is dangerous, and walking to the local shop will not get you murdered or kidnapped! Kids are definitely worse though, respect has gone out of the window completely and so had support for adults. I do a lot of youth work and always have, and every year the kids are less respectful. Having said that so many are perfect and need the right type of coaxing to get the best from them, it is massively down to the way a parent acts but kids are 'older' now, more street wise, and sometimes they have to realise their own faults. To those who would never hit a child, definitely fair play, whatever works for you but ill tell you now, when I was a child if you thought you could deal with me without physical discipline of some sort you would have had a nervous break down before you reached 40. I am not saying hitting a child is good, but showing dominance (i wasn't rude or naughty, I was clever and mischievous) when a child is difficult is necessary to construct the right kind of boundaries. We have lost sight of that too, and kids know the system works for them now, in school, at home and out and about. I have worked with many many kids with behavioural problems and the hardest part of my job has always been not being allowed any physical contact, I of course ignored this rule and ended up having by far the best success rate with the students. Don't bring back caning! But do keep the fear alive! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b23avfc Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Definitely a parental problem. My three are 18, 15 and 12. I've NEVER had to give them a good hiding, hardly any slaps either. They were/are all good students. They are not mouthy to me or anyone else. They dont smoke They dont drink to excess ;-) They dont throw crap on the floor. All I had to do was shout at em, which wasnt too difficult ;-) If my dad was as ugly as you i'd keep quiet and drink too haaaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjw63 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Thats the last time I feed you at the game ye little **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsjg80 Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 'itdoesntmatterwhatthissay' has got it pretty much spot on - the kids know the system back to front and how to get round it. They know exactly what YOU can't do so they know they can do x and x without any reprisals. They learn this at an earlier and earlier stage in their lives. They are extremely aware that there is nothing non-parents can do, and then they have useless parents who just laugh, shrug or swear at their kids to compound the issue. Children need to have something they like before you can withhold that benefit as a consequence of misbehaviour - and especially in Primary there aren't such things as all they crave is PSP's and mobile phones which we don't have control over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 VB, totally spot on, empty threats are the problem, too many parents will give in too easy to a tantrum .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 13, 2008 VT Supporter Share Posted January 13, 2008 Definitely a parental problem. My three are 18, 15 and 12. I've NEVER had to give them a good hiding, hardly any slaps either. They were/are all good students. They are not mouthy to me or anyone else. They dont smoke They dont drink to excess ;-) They dont throw crap on the floor. All I had to do was shout at em, which wasnt too difficult ;-)Similar experience to me. Maybe it would have been harder if they'd been boys, but my daughters (20 and 18 ) have turned out just fine. We DID administer the very occasional smack when they were small - it can be effective to let them know they've REALLY upset you, but becomes useless if over-used. Never had to do it once they'd started school. They're now bright, confident and happy young women - one at university, one about to go - and great company. How much of that is down to parenting and how much is sheer luck (e.g. living in a decent area, being in a good social group) I'll never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damothaking Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 as i am 15 and i do piss people of mainly teachers because school is so shit and depressing and a lot hrder now adays than it was say 30 years ago this has a affect on me and people of my age also other reasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villab0y Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 VB, totally spot on, empty threats are the problem, too many parents will give in too easy to a tantrum .... Ding ding ding ding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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