DaveAV1 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 51 minutes ago, sne said: Bit apprehensive about the Cheick Doukouré link. Guys out with an calf injury with unknown return date (might be tomorrow for all I know) and he's never really shone or played that many games in a season at any club (according to Whoscored) Looks like he's pretty strong and mobile, but that's about it. Then again we are playing in the Championship so that might be enough. Hopefully he’ll have a proper medical and not just weigh him and count his legs. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: Hopefully he’ll have a proper medical and not just weigh him and count his legs. Theres not an awful lot that can be done at medicals. Its just a medical opinion (Micah got through one !) A friend of mine used to do them but was advised to stop - because of litigation implications - for example if we were going to sign a 25 year old hot shot - for £25m - but then our doctor no 'He has cartlidge wear in his knees' - deal collapses - if that player then never gets his dream move that doc could be liable - esp if by age 35 the knees have been fine. He also also reckons that a player doesn't fail a medical - and that in some cases the scans etc can be used as a bargaining tool. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, hippo said: Theres not an awful lot that can be done at medicals. Its just a medical opinion (Micah got through one !) A friend of mine used to do them but was advised to stop - because of litigation implications - for example if we were going to sign a 25 year old hot shot - for £25m - but then our doctor no 'He has cartlidge wear in his knees' - deal collapses - if that player then never gets his dream move that doc could be liable - esp if by age 35 the knees have been fine. He also also reckons that a player doesn't fail a medical - and that in some cases the scans etc can be used as a bargaining tool. Thank you, that’s a really good insight into the process. Sounds like weighing them and counting their legs is pretty much it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 1 minute ago, DaveAV1 said: Thank you, that’s a really good insight into the process. Sounds like weighing them and counting their legs is pretty much it! Yes - it quite surprising the expectations people have of medical imaging - You would think , Scan, find problem, fix it. It just doesn't work like that - my knees for example on a scan show moderate/severe arthritis - Yet I am almost pain free. A few years back I had a weird hamstring \ hip injury - an MRI showed a small tear in my hip cartridge - I got quite arsey when the consultant wouldn't operate - saying he didn't think that was the cause of the pain (it doesn't fit your symptoms) and wasn't prepared to put me through major surgery to correct (He was actually correct in the end) The scans can show many things - the skill is working out what is significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 12 minutes ago, hippo said: Yes - it quite surprising the expectations people have of medical imaging - You would think , Scan, find problem, fix it. It just doesn't work like that - my knees for example on a scan show moderate/severe arthritis - Yet I am almost pain free. A few years back I had a weird hamstring \ hip injury - an MRI showed a small tear in my hip cartridge - I got quite arsey when the consultant wouldn't operate - saying he didn't think that was the cause of the pain (it doesn't fit your symptoms) and wasn't prepared to put me through major surgery to correct (He was actually correct in the end) The scans can show many things - the skill is working out what is significant. Sounds like you have a good quack. Trusting highly trained professionals is still almost invariably the best policy. The rising problem is we all think we know better because we had a mate with the same problem or we read it on the internet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 2 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I don't understand the whole "work permit" issue with regards to football players. The "Needs international caps" thingy or whatever. Surely every foreign player won't have caps? How do you sign young and/or promising foreign players? (Or is this what it is meant to prevent against? Influx or foreigners taking opportunity from young brit footballers?) Either way I don't understand why professional football players have work permit problems. As has been said is happening with Rodoja, and in the past with Kalinic. It appears to me that the whole work permit issue thing mainly kicks in when we are the ones that are looking to sign a player. I wonder if we would even be able to get Messi through without someone being uncomfortable about his qualifying for a work permit! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 31, 2018 Moderator Share Posted December 31, 2018 The rules on permits are quite clear, the only subjective bit is when one is rejected and it goes to appeal which is where we got done over on Kalinic due to a conflict of interest with one of the panel. It seemed fairly fancifully that the Serbian guy was ever going to be successful in terms of a work permit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: The rules on permits are quite clear, the only subjective bit is when one is rejected and it goes to appeal which is where we got done over on Kalinic due to a conflict of interest with one of the panel. It seemed fairly fancifully that the Serbian guy was ever going to be successful in terms of a work permit. maybe we never even looked at his Serbian guy, and it was all just rumor / click bait? I cant imagine we would have even considered him if there was reasonable doubt that he would get a work permit, so either we never looked at him, or we did and realised he wouldnt get one quite quickly? (or maybe we thought we could get him one?, who knows) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 37 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: Sounds like you have a good quack. Trusting highly trained professionals is still almost invariably the best policy. The rising problem is we all think we know better because we had a mate with the same problem or we read it on the internet! Once you get past the GP the care is pretty good - but to a greater or lesser extent GP'S have one eye on the cost/benefit of any treatment. My sister was in agony with her back for 6 months - couldn't even get an x-ray. Don't know anything about the Serbian guy - but I think on the whole DS will be looking for players to make an impact at first team level pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted December 31, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 31, 2018 12 minutes ago, MaVilla said: maybe we never even looked at his Serbian guy, and it was all just rumor / click bait? I cant imagine we would have even considered him if there was reasonable doubt that he would get a work permit, so either we never looked at him, or we did and realised he wouldnt get one quite quickly? (or maybe we thought we could get him one?, who knows) Exactly what I was going to say. If the permit rules are so clear why were we even in discussions? Iove the smell of click bait in the morning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 2 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I don't understand the whole "work permit" issue with regards to football players. The "Needs international caps" thingy or whatever. Surely every foreign player won't have caps? How do you sign young and/or promising foreign players? (Or is this what it is meant to prevent against? Influx or foreigners taking opportunity from young brit footballers?) Either way I don't understand why professional football players have work permit problems. As has been said is happening with Rodoja, and in the past with Kalinic. As far as I can tell, the higher the national team is in the FIFA rankings, the fewer games the player has to have played in order to qualify for a work permit (I assume this is why Kalinic now qualfies). If that fails it's done on a points basis depending on which league they are signing from, how expensive the fee is, how much his wages are, how good his English is etc. Teams have got around this before by buying players and sending them to other countries where it's quicker to get EU nationality. But yeah, as a result they hope young English players will get more chance of first team football. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 2 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I don't understand the whole "work permit" issue with regards to football players. The "Needs international caps" thingy or whatever. Surely every foreign player won't have caps? How do you sign young and/or promising foreign players? (Or is this what it is meant to prevent against? Influx or foreigners taking opportunity from young brit footballers?) Either way I don't understand why professional football players have work permit problems. As has been said is happening with Rodoja, and in the past with Kalinic. bigger teams usually loan out the young players in the hope of them developing enough to get a work permit in the future or a EU passport. Chelsea send them to Netherlands and Arsenal and United used to send players to Belgium 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: As far as I can tell, the higher the national team is in the FIFA rankings, the fewer games the player has to have played in order to qualify for a work permit (I assume this is why Kalinic now qualfies). If that fails it's done on a points basis depending on which league they are signing from, how expensive the fee is, how much his wages are, how good his English is etc. Teams have got around this before by buying players and sending them to other countries where it's quicker to get EU nationality. But yeah, as a result they hope young English players will get more chance of first team football. It seems a restriction has been waived in recent months regarding Croatians in UK though as a member of the EU I dont understand why a permit was required in the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 not sure if this is up to date, but here is an "example": https://www.reevaldo.com/story/2016/9/15/football-work-permit-premier-league-fa-foreign-players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 24 minutes ago, Zatman said: It seems a restriction has been waived in recent months regarding Croatians in UK though as a member of the EU I dont understand why a permit was required in the past Looks like as a new member of the EU, other countries had the option to delay allowing people from Croatia freedom to work until 2020, and the UK chose 2018 as a start date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 11 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: Looks like as a new member of the EU, other countries had the option to delay allowing people from Croatia freedom to work until 2020, and the UK chose 2018 as a start date. so if im understanding this, the WP isnt a problem here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 If a player with over a 100 appearances in the top flight of arguably one of the strongest leagues in Europe this century is not deemed skullfull enough for a work permit to play in the second tier of English football due to number of international caps then the whole system is bollocks. Unless ive misunderstood the whole point of work permits? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMitch Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 8 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: If a player with over a 100 appearances in the top flight of arguably one of the strongest leagues in Europe this century is not deemed skullfull enough for a work permit to play in the second tier of English football due to number of international caps then the whole system is bollocks. Unless ive misunderstood the whole point of work permits? It's designed to force clubs to "develop" English players. It's all political BS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, KMitch said: It's designed to force clubs to "develop" English players. It's all political BS... Basing it on international caps is completely flawed though. Serbia are a top team. Just getting in to that squad is an achievement and means you’re a decent player. Yet Peru who lets be honest are pretty weak are higher than them in FIFA rankings. We could sign a Peruvian with a few caps no problem. It’s ridiculous. Edited December 31, 2018 by Vive_La_Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 1 hour ago, MaVilla said: so if im understanding this, the WP isnt a problem here? For Kalinic its ok not Radoja, Serbia arent in EU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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