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Dean Smith

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33 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think you are spot on.

If we have aspirations of top half, you need better quality......A team with reasonable quality, but have a right good go, could get half way.

We have arguably the best attacking midfielder in the country, who applies himself, like one of us would do.....so what are the rest doing?.....our workrate, desire, will, is inconsistent....i want to see that improve.

only 2 championship playoff winners in the last 15 years finished in the top 10 on the 1st season. 10 of them have finished 16th or below

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The thing that has been the biggest red flag for me recently is both how we deal with being pressed and also go about doing it ourselves. I love Smith but it does worry me that for a manager who has a reputation for playing a possession-based style our ball retention is awful whenever a side presses us both home and away (obviously to a lesser extent with the former). At the weekend we'd try to play it out from the back and would have no real options or movement once they pressed, which ended up in endlessly hoofing it out for throw ins and just inviting more pressure on ourselves. Defending is about more than just dealing with the other side's attacks, and we're making the defence work more than they have to by being pressured into losing it in dangerous areas.

Same goes for when the opposition has the ball. Compare how Brighton with 11 men often found it so easy to play it out against us at Villa Park with how much we struggled at The Amex. Southampton was a similar story. We're not making teams work as hard for possession as vice versa and it's making life a lot harder.

Edited by Indigo
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1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

That's not how it works. We've spent the majority of that money just treading water as the team that finished 5th in the Championship. I'm sure the owners are under no illusion that safety was the goal and by no means is it a guarantee.

Didn't one of the top brass state something along the lines of us not wanting to merely make up the numbers in the PL? Didn't sound like they were planning on just staying up. 

Edited by Laughable Chimp

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5 minutes ago, Zatman said:

only 2 championship playoff winners in the last 15 years finished in the top 10 on the 1st season. 10 of them have finished 16th or below

So we can't be one of the 2?....its a defeatist quote......we need a fighting spirit.

"If we think we can we can, if we think we can't we can't.

I think its pointless busying ourselves with what others do.....its what we do that counts and we should study, what we do in a game.....to improve.....and be aware of what we do badly and improve.

I also think, it is reasonably predictable with what has happened with Sheff Utd and Norwich......if you see how they both play and study the league, Sheff utd are far more atuned to the rigours of this league, that make it tough.....they are savvy to the task.

Its not stats as you have quoted, its how you set up and apply yourself, that's key.

what other teams have done will have no effect on us......we don't want to be a lemming, like them.

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37 minutes ago, Indigo said:

The thing that has been the biggest red flag for me recently is both how we deal with being pressed and also go about doing it ourselves. I love Smith but it does worry me that for a manager who has a reputation for playing a possession-based style our ball retention is awful whenever a side presses us both home and away (obviously to a lesser extent with the former). At the weekend we'd try to play it out from the back and would have no real options or movement once they pressed, which ended up in endlessly hoofing it out for throw ins and just inviting more pressure on ourselves. Defending is about more than just dealing with the other side's attacks, and we're making the defence work more than they have to by being pressured into losing it in dangerous areas.

Same goes for when the opposition has the ball. Compare how Brighton with 11 men often found it so easily to play it out against us at Villa Park with how much we struggled at The Amex. Southampton was a similar story. We're not making teams work as hard for possession as vice versa and it's making life a lot harder.

I see the same thing....fwiw

I think you describe it well.....we just need Dean to address it, with consistency....else we will struggle more than we need to.

Edited by TRO

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1 hour ago, TRO said:

Well said Dave.....yes I accept that, but it is the coaches jobs to get them prepared and up for games like this, particulary, whe confidence is high.

but the trick is to improve and that means improve consistency as we all know.

I have to say I am not enamered with the attempt to improve midfield this window, but Accept January is difficult.

I also think whilst taking a reasonable view to progress, it is just as easy to be complacent and find excuses for everything.

I don’t disagree with any of that TRO. I think better quality players do the basics more naturally, no matter how basic they are, they don’t have to think, it’s just natural. The better the quality the more consistency.

I’d have liked a midfield enforcer added to the squad, but as you say it’s a difficult window  

Going back to consistency, I think it’s a problem in most if not all sports and at all levels. For example during last year’s Rugby World Cup, NZ were widely acknowledged as the best team in the world and red hot favourites. But England dominated and beat them in the semi and we all assumed that we’d win the final against South Africa, but we just didn’t show up. These guys are Playing at the very highest level and yet they demonstrated absolute inconsistency. It’s hard to know how to achieve a high level of consistency when humans are involved. Find the answer and you’d be a very wealthy man indeed!

Edited by DaveAV1

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5 minutes ago, TRO said:

So we can't be one of the 2?....its a defeatist quote......we need a fighting spirit.

"If we think we can we can, if we think we can't we can't.

I think its pointless busying ourselves with what others do.....its what we do that counts and we should study, what we do in a game.....to improve.....and be aware of what we do badly and improve.

I also think, it is reasonably predictable with what has happened with Sheff Utd and Norwich......if you see how they both play and study the league, Sheff utd are far more atuned to the rigours of this league, that make it tough.....they are savvy to the task.

Its not stats as you have quoted, its how you set up and apply yourself, that's key.

what other teams have done will have no effect on us......we don't want to be a lemming, like them.

well it sounds like you were expecting it which is extremely naive if honest. We havent finished in the top 10 in this league until 2011

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10 minutes ago, Indigo said:

The thing that has been the biggest red flag for me recently is both how we deal with being pressed and also go about doing it ourselves. I love Smith but it does worry me that for a manager who has a reputation for playing a possession-based style our ball retention is awful whenever a side presses us both home and away (obviously to a lesser extent with the former). At the weekend we'd try to play it out from the back and would have no real options or movement once they pressed, which ended up in endlessly hoofing it out for throw ins and just inviting more pressure on ourselves. Defending is about more than just dealing with the other side's attacks, and we're making the defence work more than they have to by being pressured into losing it in dangerous areas.

Same goes for when the opposition has the ball. Compare how Brighton with 11 men often found it so easily to play it out against us at Villa Park with how much we struggled at The Amex. Southampton was a similar story. We're not making teams work as hard for possession as vice versa and it's making life a lot harder.

100% yes.

Bournemouth lost at home to Watford the other day getting caught pissing around with it like we were.

Against us, they got it forward and competed heavily, playing all the football in our half in the first 45 mins.

We went short again and again, and as usual looked light in midfield because they had 3 in there and we had 2, one of which in Nakamba is as much use on the ball as a chocolate teapot.

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14 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Didn't one of the top brass state something along the lines of us not wanting to merely make up the numbers in the PL? Didn't sound like they were planning on just staying up. 

Only so much you can do in one season with FFP trying to keep you down tbf. 

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3 minutes ago, useless said:

We're nineth in the form guide for the last seven games, of those seven games we've won three of them and drew with away to Brighton, over the same period we've taken the same number of points as Leicester, Manchester United, and only one less than Spurs and Watford, and only three less than Man City and Southampton. Before beating Norwich in December we'd only won one game in eleven. Our form since after Christmas has improved massively, and despite losing to Bournemouth, over all we're now doing very well. Really hope that Smith at least keeps a cool head and doesn't start making drastic changes because of one bad result.

You mean let’s hope he’s not a VTer 😀

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20 minutes ago, useless said:

We're nineth in the form guide for the last seven games, of those seven games we've won three of them and drew with away to Brighton, over the same period we've taken the same number of points as Leicester, Manchester United, and only one less than Spurs and Watford, and only three less than Man City and Southampton. Before beating Norwich in December we'd only won one game in eleven. Our form since after Christmas has improved massively, and despite losing to Bournemouth, over all we're now doing very well. Really hope that Smith at least keeps a cool head and doesn't start making drastic changes because of one bad result.

I mean, tbf its not hard to improve ovr our pre christmas form considering it was like, LLLWLDLL or something like that.

 

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Our form has more than just improved, it's improved drastically, if we were to keep it up we'd probably finish closer to midtable than the bottom three. That post didn't even take into account that in the same period we also beat Leicester over two legs to reach a cup final.

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52 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Didn't one of the top brass state something along the lines of us not wanting to merely make up the numbers in the PL? Didn't sound like they were planning on just staying up. 

Purslow said something like that. It sounded to me like it was part of our long term goal, ie: we're not back in the PL to make up the numbers every year, we're working towards something bigger. I doubt he meant "our aim this season is to finish midtable and beyond", and if he did I'm sure he revised that optimistic goal rather sharpish.

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33 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

I don’t disagree with any of that TRO. I think better quality players do the basics more naturally, no matter how basic they are, they don’t have to think, it’s just natural. The better the quality the more consistency.

I’d have liked a midfield enforcer added to the squad, but as you say it’s a difficult window  

Going back to consistency, I think it’s a problem in most if not all sports and at all levels. For example during last year’s Rugby World Cup, NZ were widely acknowledged as the best team in the world and red hot favourites. But England dominated and beat them in the semi and we all assumed that we’d win the final against South Africa, but we just didn’t show up. These guys are Playing at the very highest level and yet they demonstrated absolute inconsistency. It’s hard to know how to achieve a high level of consistency when humans are involved. Find the answer and you’d be a very wealthy man indeed!

I get what you say and wouldn't argue, but we must find a way to get better....we cannot stand still as just say this league is so tough, I accept the window is now closed and we have what we have.....but we have to make the best of it.

in answer to the Rugby World cup.....The springboks just applied a level of physicality, we couldn't cope with, for whatever reasons ....all the key elements like scrums and line outs, they just bullied us in a way, i didn't think was possible....they then captalised in other area's with Faf de Klerk running riot.

I understand that sometimes things are unexplainable.......I think our issues are explainable as "indigo" has eloquently done. In his recent post.....Dean needs to fix them.

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2 minutes ago, useless said:

Our form has more than just improved, it's improved drastically, if we were to keep it up we'd probably finish closer to midtable than the bottom three. That post didn't even take into account that in the same period we also beat Leicester over two legs to reach a cup final.

Technically true, but keep in mind we didn't exactly face the best quality opposition in that run. It was Norwich, Watford, Burnley, Man City, Brighton, Watford and Bournemouth.  

 

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38 minutes ago, useless said:

We're nineth in the form guide for the last seven games, of those seven games we've won three of them and drew with away to Brighton, over the same period we've taken the same number of points as Leicester, Manchester United, and only one less than Spurs and Watford, and only three less than Man City and Southampton. Before beating Norwich in December we'd only won one game in eleven. Our form since after Christmas has improved massively, and despite losing to Bournemouth, over all we're now doing very well. Really hope that Smith at least keeps a cool head and doesn't start making drastic changes because of one bad result.

But it isn't just one bad result that concerns.....thats just dismissive of the real issues.

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1 minute ago, Keyblade said:

Purslow said something like that. It sounded to me like it was part of our long term goal, ie: we're not back in the PL to make up the numbers every year, we're working towards something bigger. I doubt he meant "our aim this season is to finish midtable and beyond", and if he did I'm sure he revised that optimistic goal rather sharpish.

He was definitely referring to this season.

He has just done another 10 minutes on Villa TV today. Doesn’t really go into this season’s aims in any detail but talks about long term vision and how committed our owners are to get us back to being a great club.

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9 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Purslow said something like that. It sounded to me like it was part of our long term goal, ie: we're not back in the PL to make up the numbers every year, we're working towards something bigger. I doubt he meant "our aim this season is to finish midtable and beyond", and if he did I'm sure he revised that optimistic goal rather sharpish.

Just did a quick google, this was his quote.

"Our goal is, that when we arrive in the Premier League, we are ready with a Dean Smith team – players that fit his playing profile and that give us the best possible chance to make a real impact next season – not just making up the numbers. "

So it does seem like he was specifically referring to this season. But tbf, it does seem like he is saying he hopes that Villa aren't just making up the numbers rather than actually expecting it. 

Edited by Laughable Chimp
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46 minutes ago, useless said:

We're nineth in the form guide for the last seven games, of those seven games we've won three of them and drew with away to Brighton, over the same period we've taken the same number of points as Leicester, Manchester United, and only one less than Spurs and Watford, and only three less than Man City and Southampton. Before beating Norwich in December we'd only won one game in eleven. Our form since after Christmas has improved massively, and despite losing to Bournemouth, over all we're now doing very well. Really hope that Smith at least keeps a cool head and doesn't start making drastic changes because of one bad result.

and we're 11th over the last 5 games, 16th over the last 10 games & 17th 15, 20 & 25 games....

Honestly from our last 7/8 games we should, or at the very least needed to be top 3/4 as far as points go or at least matching southampton/watford as other than city we have basically played the bottom half of the league in Bournemouth, Watford, Brighton, City, Burnley, Watford, Norwich, Southampton. You will never get an easier run of games to make a difference for yourself when you are down the bottom and 3 wins, 1 draw & 4 defeats from that lot will be a big part of the reason we go down. We needed 4 or 5 wins to give us an advantage over those around us but we ballsed it up.

Edited by LakotaDakota
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