Woody1000 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Still not convinced about Smith. I like the guy, probably more than every manager we have had in my time as a supporter (I’m 38), but I worry that he is out of his depth. I just feel that he is abandoning his principles as a coach, and starting with the same team last night that produced the awful first 45 mins against Brighton. I worry that the job is possibly too big for him. Perhaps I’m being too hard on him when he’s having to deal with injuries and a squad that on the whole is clearly not up to task, I’m more worried and concerned rather than angry with him. I really hope I am wrong, and that this is a period that we will look back on as a time that the hierarchy did the right thing by holding their nerve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KentVillan Posted January 22, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 22, 2020 11 minutes ago, Woody1000 said: Still not convinced about Smith. I like the guy, probably more than every manager we have had in my time as a supporter (I’m 38), but I worry that he is out of his depth. I just feel that he is abandoning his principles as a coach, and starting with the same team last night that produced the awful first 45 mins against Brighton. I worry that the job is possibly too big for him. Perhaps I’m being too hard on him when he’s having to deal with injuries and a squad that on the whole is clearly not up to task, I’m more worried and concerned rather than angry with him. I really hope I am wrong, and that this is a period that we will look back on as a time that the hierarchy did the right thing by holding their nerve. Get where you’re coming from, but I don’t think he has abandoned his principles at all. We continue to attempt to play the ball out from the back, and have just brought in a goalkeeper who has improved that aspect of our play massively. If anything, DS has stuck too much to his favoured attacking patterns when we don’t have the personnel to convert them into goals. But it’s very hard to know what would have worked with such limited attacking options in the squad. I hope that the introduction of Samatta will make a lot of that play look far more productive. He strikes me as a manager who holds his nerve, but also isn’t completely resistant to trying new things. Yes he’s clearly felt the stress recently, but he’s on a learning curve like the vast majority of our players. I think it’s way too early to say whether he’s out of his depth at this stage in our progress. His only really glaring mistake this season (but it was a big one) was not demanding that we have more striking options from August. But that has been fixed, and I think Samatta could have a similar impact to Mings last January. 8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted January 22, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted January 22, 2020 5 hours ago, villa4europe said: story doing the rounds on twitter that on around 60 minutes terry called a ball boy over and had him run round all the other ball boys spreading the message to speed up getting the ball back in to play great bit of game management that I didn't notice Definitely saw a ball boy run around the pitch speaking to all of the others and that seemed to be the message that went around. It was also after this that one of them had a bit of a to do with Foster with getting the ball onto the pitch for a goal kick, which was pretty funny to watch. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 12 hours ago, gwi1890 said: Interesting , Hope you do come up , alot are rooting for you a very likeable club, I think Suso the DOF has supported Dean well under the circumstances , average age of the team is down and we needed to build a new team it was never going to be easy, we are guilty as Villa fans of expecting to much at times we still have that big club mentality only thing is we haven't won a trophy since 96 and everybody bar us dont see us as a big club, a liverpool fan told me before the season started “ if you finish 17th this year it will be a good achievement” I was a bit offended at the time , looking back it makes sense , there are a lot of settled team in this leauge and it was always going to be tough, think Dean is doing a good job and I hope we kick on from last night. I don't get the " big club mentality" jibe. The fact is, we are a big club. Expectation is always going to be an issue, it has been the death of many a Villa manager. I'm quietly confident that Deano will turn out to be our most successful manager since BL. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post A'Villan Posted January 23, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 23, 2020 Just under two-thirds through the season and we are 16th, and two wins shy of 10th place and top half placing. Regardless of our misfortunes, we've got every chance of survival. 3 of our next 4 are against rivals, whether promoted with us (Sheffield), in the relegation scrap currently (Bournemouth), or a team that is within our reach come season's end (Soton). Our next match is a semi-final second leg against the third best side in the country, we go into that on a level scoreline, like us to win or not, we're top 4 in a contest for silverware. You can rightly argue that we've played against opposition who've opted not to field full strength teams, but same goes for us, and our opposition have mostly been PL sides. I think Smith will pull one out of the hat this season, and if he does, I'm thinking we go on to punch like heavyweights, and show that there was substance and cause for his selection. At the moment we've not won many rounds, and at times are waiting for the bell to sound, but it's because as a team we're rookie upstarts in the ring with seasoned pro's. I think we're holding our own, and given time we'll show that we're prospects worth taking note of. As for abandoning his principles, I don't think so, at all. He has given interviews outlining that players and coaches alike need to be able to call upon ANY of the various ways to play. This isn't so much because he wants to employ every approach, rather that a team has an understanding for it should they want to play that way, or because an opponent adopts it. 4-3-3 and 3-4-3 are extremely similar, the main difference being that in Smith's 4-3-3, it can become a sort of 2-5-3, as the emphasis and intent is to occupy attacking territory. With 3 CB's and a 3-4-3 formation, we have more players to cover in our final defensive line, channels are harder to run into for forwards and we aren't spread so thin should it go wide. Makes sense given the ease in which we concede chances in transition, regardless of whether we're successful in occupying attacking areas, or concede the ball in the defensive half 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 65% possession and double the shots for, and shots on target, just 4th game into a new formation that was brought on by loss of a number of first choice players. Should be chuffed. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Everton had finished in European placing since 2006/07, albeit apart from one 8th finish, every year leading up to their appointment of Martinez at the end of the 2012/13 season. Wigan had been in the PL for 8 years straight when Martinez finally relegated them, his run of 7 wins from 9 matches the year earlier meant that PL status was retained another year. He won Wigan the FA cup, in a contest against a City side who by all means were expected to dominate the affair, only to find Wigan were up and ready for the occasion. We've been in relegation scraps or playing in the second tier for 8 years straight and some, Smith seemingly the first to be able to sustain an upward trajectory for this club. Like Martinez, he's led us deep into trophy territory, and both have done so employing a 4-3-3 or 3-4-3 for large parts. Even the tactics within the system are quite similar. The reason why I bring this up is I've been doing some reading, and while I have no evidence or clue to indicate this, it wouldn't surprise me if Smith has researched Roberto. As an aspiring manager from the lower tiers, Swansea and Martinez have got to be one story you'd want to be well acquainted with. Personally I think, unlike Martinez, Smith has already got his big move, and this team will become as successful as Everton, and hopefully as stacked with talent as Belgium. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 13 hours ago, A'Villan said: 3 of our next 4 are against rivals, whether promoted with us (Sheffield), in the relegation scrap currently (Bournemouth), or a team that is within our reach come season's end (Soton). Spurs away are awful. I think we can beat them. 2 wins in 11 and last 3 away had to rescue point vs Norwich then lost 1-0 to Southampton and 0-0 against Watford. Plus no Kane 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Kiwivillan said: Spurs away are awful. I think we can beat them. 2 wins in 11 and last 3 away had to rescue point vs Norwich then lost 1-0 to Southampton and 0-0 against Watford. Plus no Kane So do I. Edit: I'd read about discontent with Mourniho's approach and training bust ups, but Mourinho's tactics being dated would be media hype, not player input. Mourinho likes direct and lofted balls to be played into space for forwards to run onto, but with 3 cb's and 2 full backs we cover width and the channels well. However I didn't mention Spurs, as they still have a lot of quality throughout the squad and a manager who will undoubtedly know what he is up against and how he wants to play. Lamela, Alli, Son and Moura as an attacking quartet doesn't get much stronger outside of sides who are expected to reach the latter stages of CL and contest domestic titles. I remember Mourinho commenting on one of our matches against Wolves as a pundit and he was spot on in his observations and assessment of our team. If his players do what he says, I have a feeling Grealish will not be receiving the ball as easily as he usually does, Mourinho will know if he nullifies Grealish our catalyst goes. The way to defend the opposition's best player is to ensure he never receives a pass in the first place, as once he's on the ball he can work magic, as he does best. If there's a manager who's able to mastermind tactics to deal with superstar opponents having an impact, it's Mourinho. He's done it to Messi and Hazard both, without sacrificing his teams ability to defend in general or to attack with purpose. Edited January 24, 2020 by A'Villan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 On 23/01/2020 at 11:54, sheepyvillian said: I don't get the " big club mentality" jibe. The fact is, we are a big club. Expectation is always going to be an issue, it has been the death of many a Villa manager. I'm quietly confident that Deano will turn out to be our most successful manager since BL. Historically we're an English mainstay and powerhouse. That's historically. Nowadays, we've not faded so far into the history books as Nottingham Forest, but we're probably closer to Leeds in terms of stature than we are Everton. All four clubs have historically achieved European cup finals, have won the top tier title and have domestic cups in their cabinet. The only thing keeping us more alike to Everton in stature and clout is that we have a greater fan base and population. Sure we've been higher up the table than Leeds over the last decade, go back another and they were finishing 3rd and CL semi-finalists. It's only really our fan base and their ideas about how big a deal we are meant to be that make us a big club. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 1 hour ago, A'Villan said: Mourinho will know if he nullifies Grealish our catalyst goes. Everyone and his mother will know this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 It’s been very up and down so far but I think we expected that. I think Dean Smith is still learning as a manager and will be better for managing in the premier league which there is no hiding place. We lie 16th and we are in a semi final of a cup. It could be worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 (edited) I actually think the three senior signings we've made are good ones. The striker signing came way too late, but there's not a lot to do about that. Still think we need an additional winger/striker. Edited January 24, 2020 by KenjiOgiwara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: I actually think the three senior signings we've made are good ones. The striker signing came way too late, but there's not a lot to do about that. Still think we need an additional winger/striker. Pepe Reina is a genius signing. Clever work there by the club, and it suits both parties. Drinkwater is a gamble, but I’ve got a good feeling about the striker. Wouldn’t surprise me if we push up the table slightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 58 minutes ago, vreitti said: Everyone and his mother will know this. And how many managers have come up with a system to prevent his influence? All I'm saying if there's one in the league who I'd pick to do it, it's Mourinho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 9 minutes ago, A'Villan said: And how many managers have come up with a system to prevent his influence? All I'm saying if there's one in the league who I'd pick to do it, it's Mourinho. It’s easier said than done, it’s like saying Stop Messi. most players tactics are to give him a kicking, all that does it draw loads of fouls and bookings. if Jose does that Can see someone getting a yellow fairly early on, hopefully a defender. he drops deep to get the ball when he’s isolated so unless his man market plans to play higher than their striker at times not sure how they can stop that either. or he will overload a winger and just draw space for someone else, therefore whilst his direct influence is nullified, all he needs to do is weight a pass into a massive gap for Luiz or whoever and they have a ten hard circle around them with no one in it. teams have tried before, I am not sure too many have succeeded, it’s been more our fault making him play on the wing instead of a free role as CAM. Which is his best position for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 5 minutes ago, kidlewis said: It’s easier said than done, it’s like saying Stop Messi. most players tactics are to give him a kicking, all that does it draw loads of fouls and bookings. if Jose does that Can see someone getting a yellow fairly early on, hopefully a defender. he drops deep to get the ball when he’s isolated so unless his man market plans to play higher than their striker at times not sure how they can stop that either. or he will overload a winger and just draw space for someone else, therefore whilst his direct influence is nullified, all he needs to do is weight a pass into a massive gap for Luiz or whoever and they have a ten hard circle around them with no one in it. teams have tried before, I am not sure too many have succeeded, it’s been more our fault making him play on the wing instead of a free role as CAM. Which is his best position for me. Agreed much easier said than done. But Mourinho has stopped Messi before, same as Hazard, and in the latter's game Chelsea failed to register a shot on target. Mourinho prides himself on tactics and organisation specific to the requirements of each fixture. He will have every player that occupies territory covered by Grealish responsible. There won't just be one man-marker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DCJonah Posted January 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 24, 2020 On 22/01/2020 at 14:57, Woody1000 said: Still not convinced about Smith. I like the guy, probably more than every manager we have had in my time as a supporter (I’m 38), but I worry that he is out of his depth. I just feel that he is abandoning his principles as a coach, and starting with the same team last night that produced the awful first 45 mins against Brighton. I worry that the job is possibly too big for him. Perhaps I’m being too hard on him when he’s having to deal with injuries and a squad that on the whole is clearly not up to task, I’m more worried and concerned rather than angry with him. I really hope I am wrong, and that this is a period that we will look back on as a time that the hierarchy did the right thing by holding their nerve. What? I mean without being insulting, this is the kind of ridiculous stuff we've had to read since we were first linked with him. There is literally nothing to suggest he is out of his depth or the jobs too big. I mean it's just nonsense. Utter nonsense. - Club record breaking winning streak. - Achieved promotion before it was realistically expected. - one game away from a cup final. - Currently above the target position for the season. How can anyone look at what he's done since being here and think he's out of his depth? What did you expect at this point if after all that this is what you think is from a man in a job that's too big for him. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody1000 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: What? I mean without being insulting, this is the kind of ridiculous stuff we've had to read since we were first linked with him. There is literally nothing to suggest he is out of his depth or the jobs too big. I mean it's just nonsense. Utter nonsense. - Club record breaking winning streak. - Achieved promotion before it was realistically expected. - one game away from a cup final. - Currently above the target position for the season. How can anyone look at what he's done since being here and think he's out of his depth? What did you expect at this point if after all that this is what you think is from a man in a job that's too big for him. The winning streak last season was great, getting promoted last season (ahead of schedule) was great, one game away from a cup final is great. I agree on all those things. My concern is our league form this season. Currently above the target position for the season? How? What is our target? I’ve never heard anyone from the club come out and say that 17th is the target. I was stating that I have concerns, I don’t think what I said is ridiculous at all. I honestly cannot count 5 good performances from this season, I’m not talking results, I’m talking performance with a style and quality. What is our footballing identity this season? All IMO of course. Maybe I should just stick to coming on here and read other people’s opinions, it seems wrong to voice your own if the majority don’t agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 35 minutes ago, Woody1000 said: The winning streak last season was great, getting promoted last season (ahead of schedule) was great, one game away from a cup final is great. I agree on all those things. My concern is our league form this season. Currently above the target position for the season? How? What is our target? I’ve never heard anyone from the club come out and say that 17th is the target. I was stating that I have concerns, I don’t think what I said is ridiculous at all. I honestly cannot count 5 good performances from this season, I’m not talking results, I’m talking performance with a style and quality. What is our footballing identity this season? All IMO of course. Maybe I should just stick to coming on here and read other people’s opinions, it seems wrong to voice your own if the majority don’t agree. Not at all, share what ever you think, but you can't be surprised that saying things like the jobs too big and he's out of his depth will be responded to. You can have concerns, nothing ridiculous about that. What's ridiculous is that you've ignored all the substantial things he's done in 18 months in the job and are basing your worries that he's out of his depth on subjective performances. The club haven't stated 17th but any fan with an ounce of sense knows that's an achievement this year. You've agreed with all the things he's accomplished being great but what managers out of their depth in a job too big for them achieve those things? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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