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42 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

You can put lipstick on a pig but it’s still a pig. 
These players aren’t good enough Rodders. I don’t think there is any amount of coaching that would make Trezeguet, Nakamba and Targett better.

so this leads to the question - Why did we buy them?  

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31 minutes ago, TRO said:

Against Man city we just stood off and failed to challenge them, in contrast Crystal Palace (no reputed park the bus team) was more organised and made themselves hard to beat, they made Man City work for anything they got as opposed to us the previous week handing it on a plate....Man city did not look the invincible force yesterday, they did against us.....i.e " All teams are good, if you let them be"

Newcastle stand off everyone and are 7 points above us. Stood off City and got a 2-2 draw. They stood off Chelsea yesterday, didn't get a touch, and won 1-0.

Teams play differently across the league. Our players aren't good enough.

What has properly killed us is playing without a striker the first of half of the season. That was when we had to pick up points. We were flying high on confidence but couldn't put matches away because we had Wes doing almost everything wrong.

Obviously Chelsea and Leicester losing points to absolutely everyone at the bottom except us is also very annoying.

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1 minute ago, TRO said:

I know for a fact....if Saunders had players like that he would blank them....wouldn't speak to them for weeks on end.....I know that will attract mixed views, just saying, but he didn't do to bad did he?

Times have changed I know, but the pendulum can swing too far the other way and I think it has.

We have to as an entity get tough on poor performance to progress.

There’s a balance to be struck, Saunders understood that some players respond to a bollocking , eg Tony Morley and others needed an arm around them, eg Brian Little. Also a manager has to be true to himself, if Dean Smith isn’t the yelling and bawling type he can’t fake it, the players would see through him. I’m sure there are coaches on the staff that are more able to be vocal with players. Perhaps Dean is a little too nice, who knows we’re not in the dressing room, but he has to be genuine and believe in his way of doing things, so that players will believe in what he tells them too. 

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16 minutes ago, TRO said:

Mark, No respects your opinions more than me.....I have commented on them favourably,is my testimonial.

I don't think in many cases that's true, it will be with some, no doubt.....but,I think,its more to do with fans watching the game and analysing player performances and many cases see no improvement.....the same flaws week in week out.....maybe they are just not good enough and beyond development, I can't say for sure.....but I am confident, the evidence is there..... who is to blame, is anyone's guess.

as a contrast, I watched Jack with equal interest and his game has improved on almost a game to game basis ......such is the stark contrast. His progress is incremental, maybe he wants it more.

I worry, sometimes that maybe, its just too easy to be a **** player at Villa....just speculating.

We are going around in circles here as I have said myself that performances have gotten worse. I have also said that was my fear when earlier in the season we were playing pretty well but not picking up the results we deserved. Having not got results earlier in the season I think as the pressure has mounted an inexperienced squad at this level has struggled more. That as also come alongside injuries to key players over the last month or so in Mings, Heaton, McGinn, Wesley.

I am not in a position to question players characters but I do think the club tried over the summer to bring in good characters, players who had shown they had ability and the potential to play at this level, had their best years in front of them and were striving to get better. 

If we can get through this season and survive I am confident that a lot of these players will be better and stronger next season for it. That also goes for the manager.

Having stepped up a division and then having to transition over the summer from an aging squad with too many players with their best years behind them to one predominately containing players with their best years in front of them was always going to mean we faced a tough season. I am still hopeful though that with the couple of additions that we desperately need in this window we can survive.

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1 minute ago, Tomaszk said:

Newcastle stand off everyone and are 7 points above us. Stood off City and got a 2-2 draw. They stood off Chelsea yesterday, didn't get a touch, and won 1-0.

Teams play differently across the league. Our players aren't good enough.

What has properly killed us is playing without a striker the first of half of the season. That was when we had to pick up points. We were flying high on confidence but couldn't put matches away because we had Wes doing almost everything wrong.

Obviously Chelsea and Leicester losing points to absolutely everyone at the bottom except us is also very annoying.

I know what you mean, but they were well drilled and denied Chelsea any easy opportunities, They frustrated Chelsea, despite their 70% possession.......They made themselves hard to beat is my main point, yes there is more than one way of doing it.

but playing cavalier football is sure as hell not a way to gain points in our position.

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9 minutes ago, TRO said:

I know for a fact....if Saunders had players like that he would blank them....wouldn't speak to them for weeks on end, That was his way, He made it clear, you want his favour, you knew what you had to do...his inner circle was grafters and a winning mentality, he made it clear ..Eventually the free loaders were the minority and the workaholics the majority, that's how incrementally he morphed it.....and when new players came in, they came in to a working machine, which helped them.

.....I know that will attract mixed views, just saying, but he didn't do to bad did he?

Times have changed I know, but the pendulum can swing too far the other way and I think it has.

We have to as an entity get tough on poor performance to progress.

I agree 100%. The game has changed but the need to roll your  sleeves  up and put in a shift still remains today. This should also be a basic for the coaches philosophy within the club.  To many times this season we see abject poor displays . We are as a team soft with little aggression.    

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4 minutes ago, Blasterpocket68 said:

I agree 100%. The game has changed but the need to roll your  sleeves  up and put in a shift still remains today. This should also be a basic for the coaches philosophy within the club.  To many times this season we see abject poor displays . We are as a team soft with little aggression.    

My frustration....with the odd exception.

Mings and Jack are fine

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7 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

There’s a balance to be struck, Saunders understood that some players respond to a bollocking , eg Tony Morley and others needed an arm around them, eg Brian Little. Also a manager has to be true to himself, if Dean Smith isn’t the yelling and bawling type he can’t fake it, the players would see through him. I’m sure there are coaches on the staff that are more able to be vocal with players. Perhaps Dean is a little too nice, who knows we’re not in the dressing room, but he has to be genuine and believe in his way of doing things, so that players will believe in what he tells them too. 

Dave, arms did not get around players...Ron was a toughie.

If you had a good game, you knew you was in his favour.....Morley never got an arm around him and his 2 finger salute in Kiev, I think was testimony.

I agree, Managers have their way.....and they live or die by that.

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17 hours ago, useless said:

When Smith left Brentford they were in seven place, one point off the play-offs, and above us in the championship, after which they dropped pretty badly. The reason they've improved so much this season is more to do with that fact that they spent £30m in the summer, more than any other championship club, Smith didn't have anywhere near that much to spend whilst he was there, if he did I suspect he'd have made a good go of getting them promoted, as I say they looked like challenging last season before he left.

Smith doesn't sign anyone.

As far as I'm aware his role at Brentford was the same as his role here.

I'm sure he has a say somewhere in the mix, but he doesn't spend the money.

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Brentford hardly spent any more whilst Smith was there, and this summer after he left they spent £30m, more than any other championship club, my point being that that's a big part of the reason they're doing so well now, not because Smith has left.

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40 minutes ago, TRO said:

I know what you mean, but they were well drilled and denied Chelsea any easy opportunities, They frustrated Chelsea, despite their 70% possession.......They made themselves hard to beat is my main point, yes there is more than one way of doing it.

but playing cavalier football is sure as hell not a way to gain points in our position.

That’s what you get with a good PL manager like Steve Bruce...

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Bruce got battered at rightly so, when we would only turn up for half a game, and we are having the same performances for most of this season, and Smith get somewhat of a soft ride. I keep hearing from him we aren't aggressive enough, we don't close down quick enough, a much better second half after we spoke about a few things at H/T. Why not start talking about these during practices or heaven forbid before a game starts. 

Watching the team, I see one big thing that link us to performances when Bruce was manager. Players do not move well into space to support the player on the ball. So many times players are isolated, and have nowhere to go, and 9.5 times out of ten we lose possession. Smith says we go out to try and win every game. The performances and body language of players are not showing that to me.

The other teams around us will pull of a shock and beat a top six team before the end of the season, it's a shock if we beat a bottom six team. This is the reason my optimism as waned and I believe we are favorite for relegation.

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6 minutes ago, villianusa said:

Bruce got battered at rightly so, when we would only turn up for half a game, and we are having the same performances for most of this season, and Smith get somewhat of a soft ride. I keep hearing from him we aren't aggressive enough, we don't close down quick enough, a much better second half after we spoke about a few things at H/T. Why not start talking about these during practices or heaven forbid before a game starts. 

Watching the team, I see one big thing that link us to performances when Bruce was manager. Players do not move well into space to support the player on the ball. So many times players are isolated, and have nowhere to go, and 9.5 times out of ten we lose possession. Smith says we go out to try and win every game. The performances and body language of players are not showing that to me.

The other teams around us will pull of a shock and beat a top six team before the end of the season, it's a shock if we beat a bottom six team. This is the reason my optimism as waned and I believe we are favorite for relegation.

Surely you can see the difference between having one of the best squads in the league and expecting more than our current situation.

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2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Surely you can see the difference between having one of the best squads in the league and expecting more than our current situation.

I'm not saying I'm expecting too much more than where we are, but I am expecting more from players who should be at least trying to get into position to receive a pass. We did this under Bruce and now Smith, a lack of work rate can never be acceptable.

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1 hour ago, TRO said:

Dave, arms did not get around players...Ron was toughie.

If you had a good game, you knew you was in his favour.....Morley never got an arm around him and his 2 finger salute in Kiev, I think was testimony.

I agree, Managers have their way.....and they live or die by that.

I heard it from the man’s own mouth TRO in an interview he gave. Morley was a kick up the backside man, people like Brian Little needed the arm. In fact when we signed Brian we also gave his brother Alan a contract. We knew Alan wasn’t good enough for the first team, but we brought him down to look after Brian who would have been homesick. There’s a difference between tough guys like Ron and bullies like Kevin MacDonald appears to have been. 

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Just watched Deano's post match interview....

I wonder how many post match interviews this season he's said we were poor with the ball and too passive in our tackling? I would hazard a guess at 80% of games. What is happening on the training pitch to rectify this? At the start of the season he promised we would attack every game with the intention to win the game. Yet our pressing has gone to shit and our ball retention even worse. 

I'm 100% Smith in, but I just don't understand how we are so bad at the fundementals of what I thought was the "Smith Philosophy". 

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On 18/01/2020 at 17:32, HKP90 said:

The Villa way:

1. Take a team languishing in the championship with an average age of around 30

2. Add new filthy rich owners with ambition. 

3. Add a young manager with promise with a record of possession football

4. Put a five year plan together to get into and establish yourself in the premier league

5. Get promoted at first time of asking

6. Get rid of old journeymen footballers on massive wages who can't play football. 

6. Inject a ton of money to replace all of the players we lost. Buy young unproven players which will hopefully do a job in the prem, but if not then will be good championship players.

7. Fans get frustrated in the first six months of being back in the prem. that we are not challenging for the champions league. 

8. Due to fan pressure, sack manager and bring in a clogger like Sam Allerdyce 

9.  Spunk a bunch more money on old journeymen on massive wages who can't play football, but can head and break knees.

10. Completely alter playing style to fit said cloggers

11. Get relegated anyway

12. Old journeymen get bored and dial it in.

13. First season in championship we finish 13th. Average age of team is now >29. Football is derisive. Sack clogger of manager who is now considered a 'dinosaur'.

14. Goto No. 1

 

This is why we will never be successful again.  Unless we completely ignore fan pressure. 

Alternatively stick with Smith get relegated, Lose Grealish resulting in Smith losing his plans A to Z.

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5 hours ago, Blasterpocket68 said:

so this leads to the question - Why did we buy them?  

because we had a limited budget, they are shit but better than Whelan, Adomah and Taylor. 

I think personally Nakamba and Targett have potential......Trezeguet I think is a dud sadly

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5 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

I heard it from the man’s own mouth TRO in an interview he gave. Morley was a kick up the backside man, people like Brian Little needed the arm. In fact when we signed Brian we also gave his brother Alan a contract. We knew Alan wasn’t good enough for the first team, but we brought him down to look after Brian who would have been homesick. There’s a difference between tough guys like Ron and bullies like Kevin MacDonald appears to have been. 

Absolutely, being tough is not the same as bullying.....I hate bullies.

you must have caught Ron on a good day.

but i did say the silent treatment was not dished out to players, who were doing it.

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2 hours ago, Stuartc445 said:

Alternatively stick with Smith get relegated, Lose Grealish resulting in Smith losing his plans A to Z.

So the same result minus the journeymen cloggers and unsustainable wage bill then?

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