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Dean Smith


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17 hours ago, KentVillan said:

This isn’t intended as a dig at @TRO who I think does also appreciate good technical football, but there is a huge correlation between not liking Smith and having a fetish for blood and thunder, kick and rush, percentage football.

Where has this i don't like smith come from?......its a myth.

blood and thunder or kick and rush is absolutely not what i preside over.....you are making it up or more appropriately misinterpreting my views. To match your agenda.

If i didn't appreciate good technical football, i have wasted a lot of money.

I grew up watching with Brian Little, Gary Shaw, Tony Morely, Dwight Yorke, Paul Merson, Nobby solano and Benito carbone.

er i know what technical ability looks like.

Edited by TRO
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20 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I don't want this to turn into a Bruce thread but I can't have this Bruce was hard done by in comparison to Smith bollocks. Bruce had owners for the level we were competing at that allowed him to spend money on fees and especially wages no other manager at that level could dream of. Terry 80k a week, Bolasie similar, Snodgrass 50k a week, Whelan 40k a week, Grabban, Tammy, Elmo, Lansbury 30k+ a week. The fact the owner at the time was spending money way beyond his and our means doesn't change the fact it allowed Bruce to bring in the kind of players he did.

Under Bruce we spent a hell of a lot of money on players that were either not ours or players who would have zero sell on value. Mistakes that it appears we are trying to ensure we don't make again by in the main signing players on the up, with their best years ahead of them who we can improve over time.

I agree, i don't want to do that either......and who has made that comparison that he was hard done by....the facts are the facts.

Those players you mention are mainly loans....so he didn't have anything like £130 million on fee's ...thats the Bollox. I don't know the wages players earn and they are speculative, so I am not quoting wages, and that is the responsibilty of the club, not the manager.

I have only defended Bruce on what i think his unfair criticism as i see it....and I have read nothing from anyone to change my opinion.

I'm done with this Mark ,i have made my point folk agree or disagree, so be it.

 

Edited by TRO
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Reading through previous posts, i'm still feeling the defence of Smith at all costs. It was Bruce, we had to bring in mediocore players, he is building something, he's up against it due to past issues. 

No one cares!!!

My philosophy................... Win football games, keep us up, if it ain't happening, move on!!!

Edited by foreveryoung
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I've seen enough from last season using pretty much the the same players and the game against Newcastle this season to say it's night and day between Smith and Bruce.  I'm certain we will finish above them this season.  Anyway, time to move on, this has been done to death.

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1 hour ago, TRO said:

I agree, i don't want to do that either......and who has made that comparison that he was hard done by....the facts are the facts.

Those players you mention are mainly loans....so he didn't have anything like £130 million on fee's ...thats the Bollox. I don't know the wages players earn and they are speculative, so I am not quoting wages, and that is the responsibilty of the club, not the manager.

I have only defended Bruce on what i think his unfair criticism as i see it....and I have read nothing from anyone to change my opinion.

I'm done with this Mark ,i have made my point folk agree or disagree, so be it.

 

This is a fair point. They probably all played for a fiver a week and a go in Dr Tony’s mondeo :rolleyes:

I notice you’re happy to use the speculative press figure of £130m for Dean’s spending though. 

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6 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

I have a feeling it'll be more Burnley second half than Burnley first half the next time we play 343

I think we'll line up that way against Leicester. 

Don't really think DS has a choice with our striker options. 

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13 minutes ago, Villastine said:

 

 

I think we'll line up that way against Leicester. 

Don't really think DS has a choice with our striker options. 

Really though? I think we could play 433 still if Smith wanted to. Since the forward line remains largely the same. Its the midfield and defence that changes betweem a 433 and a 343.

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6 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

Reading through previous posts, i'm still feeling the defence of Smith at all costs. It was Bruce, we had to bring in mediocore players, he is building something, he's up against it due to past issues. 

No one cares!!!

My philosophy................... Win football games, keep us up, if it ain't happening, move on!!!

Surely you can only judge if these criteria have been met at the end of the season?

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Well I hope all of them are ready for this second part of the season because if the Coach and staff, players can't make this work well it was nice knowing you for a while prem league. We will hopefully be back after a season in the champ again, hopefully this squad will be better than we was this time, it has to be or i feel that we may have to move on from Smith.

 

Edited by Dave-R
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On 05/01/2020 at 10:19, TRO said:

but if you stand off players......there is always a likely hood of it happening.

I get that we didn't want to progress in this cup.....but surely some of those fringe players should be playing for a 1st team place.

I despair with the lack of conviction from these fringe players.

Most of our Fringe players are from last season or have been signed as squad players. It just shows how hard the job was for the club this summer. Jack and Mcginn aside we all knew there wasn’t enough quality.  Smith and co have had a to build a completely new squad to try and keep us up.  At the moment we’re on track but it’s a tall order. Would be an amazing achievement.

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Like many VT debates, the Bruce v Smith debate is so pointless. The past is past.

We have to look forward and .....hope. It would seem DS is staying and if he can bring in a few players to shore up our weak squad we can hopefully progress as others fall. We have had a torrid time recently in terms of injuries, results but amazingly we are still only 8 points behind Sheff U in 8th and still in the mix with ten other teams. Newcastle, Burnley and Everton are looking very shaky again. Bournemouth whose manager many were lauding recently are falling like a stone. imho Watford, Southampton will not sustain their form. 

I like most was despairing of DS recently but we can still turn this round as so many other teams are also poor. Really depends on whether we can bring new players in. If we don’t, it will be a race against relegation with 5-6 other **** teams. 

Keep the faith onwards and upwards 🙂 

Edited by MikeMcKenna
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17 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

In fairness regardless of whether it was down to Bruce, RDM, Xia, Wyness the facts are that their legacy left us with a squad of players that got us promoted built on foundations of sand as at least 15 of them were either not our players or were over the hill in terms of top flight (Whelan, Jedinak, Hutton, Elphick, Adomah, RIchards, McCormack) or were struggling to hold down a place in a championship matchday squad never mind Premier League (Hogan, Bree, Bjarnason).

We weren't prepared for coming up and Smith has for some become a victim of his own success in getting us up so quickly. I am sure he and others at the club didn't want to have to undertake such a huge overhaul in the summer, to have to integrate so many new players, many of whom are new to the country, but they had no choice due to the failings of those that went before them. The fact that we have been in the relegation mix all season, that it is taking time to find some consistency, not helped by injuries to key players, is no surprise to me as given the enforced huge changes over the summer I expected this to be a season where finishing 17th would be success.

Mark, I don't doubt all that, but I have explained in earlier posts why I think that was, he went about the type of transfers as he did, not that I agree with it., but circumstances was not the same and also, hindsight is an exact Science and easy to avoid someone elses mistakes, I'm sure Purslow was well aware of that in his new strategy.....but we have digressed from me defending Bruce from all things bad, to me being an unconditional supporter of every thing Bruce did.....that is disingenuous at best.

all i have done is highlighted some reasons why he was not all bad......will it help ,if I write a list of shite he was?

I would suggest such is the Dogma towards him in some quarters , nothing he did could be deemed as beneficial to us and crikey enough examples have been made......also when you are on your way back from a period of Demise its not unusual to see the New manager benefit from players he inherited, McGinn,Tammy, Jack's development, JT ...despite the downsides.

I am not and never have said SB is a better manager, I really don't know where that's come from.....also I have rarely criticised Dean Smith Directly, I have made my observations of the team, that might get interpreted as such.

Finally, you may want to reflect on  the Applause that Bruce got from sections of the Trinity when we recently met, that is testimony that some fans appreciated SOME of the work he did with us , if not ALL the work he did with us.

All the fans I speak to recognise some of the good stuff he did, mainly transfers, not coaching, but like me are all unanimous he had to go when he did.

Ps If my memory serves me correctly, Mark, you too at the time was rather balanced in your opinions of Bruce.

Edited by TRO
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1 hour ago, MikeMcKenna said:

Like many VT debates, the Bruce v Smith debate is so pointless. The past is past.

We have to look forward and .....hope. It would seem DS is staying and if he can bring in a few players to shore up our weak squad we can hopefully progress as others fall. We have had a torrid time recently in terms of injuries, results but amazingly we are still only 8 points behind Sheff U in 8th and still in the mix with ten other teams. Newcastle, Burnley and Everton are looking very shaky again. Bournemouth whose manager many were lauding recently are falling like a stone. imho Watford, Southampton will not sustain their form. 

I like most was despairing of DS recently but we can still turn this round as so many other teams are also poor. Really depends on whether we can bring new players in. If we don’t, it will be a race against relegation with 5-6 other **** teams. 

Keep the faith onwards and upwards 🙂 

Mike , that line is spot on.....but let me explain :

in an effort to highlight some of our recent short comings and create discussion.....some other folk decided to reignite the Bruce comments I made  all that time ago and turn it in to what you describe.

like a fool, I got sucked in.

I will not be commenting on Steve Bruce anymore, not even defending my past comments.

Its done.

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I didn't mind Bruce, but after his 1st season, his second season (which I enjoyed) was built on sand.  None of us were unhappy with it either, until after the final whistle against Fulham, and even more so the stupid imbalances he left us in defensively.  Although, I understand his hands were tied whilst Tony Xia was getting removed, but as I said, Bruce season 2 was a sandcastle.  

He was sacked at the right time and when Smith came in and Jack came back it was a match made in heaven.  Luckily we bought in Mings in January because without him I doubt we'd have gone on the 10 game winning run.  

Smith got us promoted when (in the position we found ourselves in when he came in) none of us expected to go up.  Which is why you've got to give him a load of time to do what he wants to do, or it's back to square one.  It's shit when we lose, yes - but we're newly promoted - and yes, we spent a load of money (replacing players out of contract), but the average price of those players, although expensive to us, are actually pretty cheap, bar Mings going permanent.  Norwich didn't spend much either and look at them, despite them having a more settled team and finishing above us last season.  Sheffield didn't spend much either, but they have a very settled squad (it'll be interesting in a couple of seasons to see if Wilder can replace his current team) and have had some luck along the way, whilst we've had some real shit luck.  Look at the opening day, we lost 3-1.. Jack gave the ball away on the edge of our area and they scored.. The other goal took 2 deflections to drop at Harry **** Kanes feet.. the last bugger you want 6 yards out against you.. 

We've had shit VAR decisions (and continue to do so) and all these things drain squad morale.  Morale and confidence being the biggest factor in professional sports.  And even then and now, we find ourselves doing just enough not to be in the relegation spots. 

It's simply not realistic enough, in our current position, with our current squad, to expect us to put in great displays every week.  It's not going to happen.  It didn't happen when we finished 6th, 3 years in a row, and it certainly isn't gonna happen with a bunch of players who have played competitively, 21 times together.  Get real.  Lower your expectations and enjoy "football", rather than Aston Villa, because it's gonna be hard for a while.. 

I'm fully prepared (and expecting) to go down this season.  I don't want to, obviously, but we're the weird team this year, we lost loads of players, bought loads of players, spend lots of money (giving false expectations), we shouldn't have been able to win 10 on the bounce and we finished far behind the other promoted teams, yet we're faring a lot better than Fulham did last year.

If we stay up, it'll be another miracle (all things considered) because of Smith and the team.  And IF we do stay up (like I hope), then I'd really look forward to a more sensible window, adding proper quality to the squad and seeing a few squad members leave.  This summer, if we stay up then when we'll build.  What we have now is a foundation.  A foundation we can add to.  What we have now is a team full of players, who will cost wherever they go to more money than when they came in.  We can build on this.  We're onto a good thing, we just have to live through the tough times.  It'll be frustrating, but even if we go down, we'll be in a much better position than we were in 12 months ago, minus Jack. :( :)  

Believe it or not, we're doing okay. 

 

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1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Most of our Fringe players are from last season or have been signed as squad players. It just shows how hard the job was for the club this summer. Jack and Mcginn aside we all knew there wasn’t enough quality.  Smith and co have had a to build a completely new squad to try and keep us up.  At the moment we’re on track but it’s a tall order. Would be an amazing achievement.

yeah, I get that.....but it didn't stop us progressing in the Carabao cup, did it?

Look, I know injuries are killing us and the squad is thin on quality, I was just making an observation on the mental approach of getting in the first team from some of the players.

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