Dean Smith

[Delphinho123]

1 minute ago, TheStagMan said:

Quite, and I remember thinking exactly this during the game. 

There are a few of their attempts that fell tamely into Heaton's arms without him even having to think about to much, yet they count as a shot on target, there was a good five minute spell where they were kicking it about in their half and we were just waiting for them to bring it forward - got their pass count and accuracy up, but offered no threat whatsoever at that point. so stats only tell you so much. It was not the one-sided game that everyone made out. Had AEG not fluffed some fairly easy chances, we could have scored 3 as well.

I thought we were thoroughly outplayed from start to finish. They move the ball so much better than we do.

[TheStagMan]

Just now, Delphinho123 said:

You’re not seeing it wrong don’t worry. We were totally dominated tbh by a team that will definitely go down (probably with us). I genuinely don’t know where we go from here.
 

The thing is, I don’t think Smith signed the players and you can talk about tactics all day, if the players aren’t good enough then it’s a moot point.

Smith is a miracle worker if he can keep this set of players in the league. Nakamba, Luiz, Trezeguet, Wesley all look poor buys and these were players who meant to make us better. 

We weren't totally dominated. 

 

I have faith in Smith that we will stay up. It wont be a great season, but we are not going down.

[TheStagMan]

Just now, Delphinho123 said:

I thought we were thoroughly outplayed from start to finish. They move the ball so much better than we do.

That's your view of the game and you are entitled to it. That's fine.

I don't think we were totally dominated or thoroughly outplayed - we weren't great but some of the hyperbole and panic on here is laughable.

 

 

 

[KenjiOgiwara]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

so, by deduction.....He should address this in January?

so what do we do with 18 mill worth of wingers who can't beat their man or cross the ball?....just do an oliver twist and ask for more?

Some players actually develop though. There's so many examples to use I can't even be bothered to start listing them. 

We need new players. We need better quality. But we bought young players that needed further development this season we all know that. Maybe it was a bit naive, but maybe it will pay off.

But lets not write them off 6 months into their first PL season with a newly promoted side, that essentially bought a new first eleven over a single summer. 

Even Wesley despite everything suggesting otherwise might develop sufficiently to be useful for us. 

I find it rather ironic here that people go on about Enda Stevens, Daniel Johnson and what not, and how we shouldn't have released them. Yet the very same people are ready to give up on talent brought into the club 6 months ago. 

Edited December 27, 2019 by KenjiOgiwara

[Delphinho123]

4 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

That's your view of the game and you are entitled to it. That's fine.

I don't think we were totally dominated or thoroughly outplayed - we weren't great but some of the hyperbole and panic on here is laughable.

 

 

 

I think the panic is absolutely warranted to be honest. That’s if you want to panic over something as silly as football. (considering life consists of so many other things!).

I don’t think we have enough to stay up, not by any stretch. We need at least 3 players in January to have any chance based on what I’ve seen so far this season.

Sad face.

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Some players actually develop though. There's so many examples to use I can't even be bothered to start listing them. 

We need new players. We need better quality. But we bought young players that needed further development this season we all know that. Maybe it was a bit naive, but maybe it will pay off.

But lets not write them off 6 months into their first PL season with a newly promoted side, that essentially bought a new first eleven over a single summer. 

Even Wesley despite everything suggesting otherwise might develop sufficiently to be useful for us. 

I find it rather ironic here that people go on about Enda Stevens, Daniel Johnson and what not, and how we shouldn't have released them. Yet the very same people are ready to give up on talent brought into the club 6 months ago. 

Kenji.....beware of the sarcasm......Enda Stevens wouldn't have made it with us...trust me.

I get the development bit ...but Trez Is 25 and an Egyptian International, how much development are you expecting there, I would suggest he has Plateaued......El Ghazi, maybe.....too lazy to catch a bus IMO.

Edited December 27, 2019 by TRO

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

I think the panic is absolutely warranted to be honest. That’s if you want to panic over something as silly as football. (considering life consists of so many other things!).

I don’t think we have enough to stay up, not by any stretch. We need at least 3 players in January to have any chance based on what I’ve seen so far this season.

Sad face.

and thats assuming they will be merchantable quality and can make an effect to lift our game.

I live in hope.....but not convinced.

[Laughable Chimp]

23 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

We weren't totally dominated. 

 

I have faith in Smith that we will stay up. It wont be a great season, but we are not going d

31 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Crazy how differently 2 people can see the same game isn't it!

There's all kinds of stats I could chuck at you about number of chances, saves, possession, striking the post, but ultimately I think if things had been the other way around, we'd see it as a game we'd dominated and be dismayed we'd not made the most of it.

 

Most on the match thread were criticizing our play, I don't think anyone there was happy with how we were playing during the game. If we had lost the game, I think the consensus would've been we deserved it.

On the topic whether we actually dominated or not, understat has our xG at around 0.6 and Norwich's at around 1.4. Rounding off tjat puts the match result at 1-1 with Norwich still having the better chances. I think 1-1 should've been a fair result for the game. Neither side really dominated the other.

The problem is, when the bottom team in the PL is getting better chances than you in a game, what does that say about you?

Edited December 27, 2019 by Laughable Chimp

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Most on the match thread were criticizing our play, I don't think anyone there was happy with how we were playing during the game. If we had lost the game, I think the consensus would've been we deserved it.

On the topic whether we actually dominated or not, understat has our xG at around 0.6 and Norwich's at around 1.4. Rounding off tjat puts the match result at 1-1 with Norwich still having the better chances. I think 1-1 should've been a fair result for the game. Neither side really dominated the other.

The problem is, when the bottom team in the PL is getting better chances than you in a game, what does that say about you?

It say's we are not watching the game properly and the performances of the players in it.

All season, we have relied on 3 or 4 players to gain anything out of a game.

There are some sub standard players in our team, that many don't want to admit to.....whether they develop, like some say, I have no idea.....but not much use to us now.

Edited December 27, 2019 by TRO

[TRO]

31 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

I thought we were thoroughly outplayed from start to finish. They move the ball so much better than we do.

yes they do.....but they don't do the most crucial thing....score.

All the fancy play in the world is lovely, but if you can't finish, what is the point.

I watched Liverpool last night and was blown away with thie ability, not just the flair, but the ability to keep the ball and deny the opposition from taking it, mainly by moving the ball so fast in transition.

This is the team yes the world champions, that we was leading for 87 minutes, before the error at the back post let in Robertson....The error at the back post that happens so often.

But to get back on track......How on earth has our confidence shattered so easily after giving such a team a game, We should have built on that......are we so fragile that our Belief is like a roller coaster....Liverpool would be forgiven for thinking ( thats if they cared) how did Leicester take them apart.

I have real grave questions about our character as a team.....we showed a spark yesterday to carve out a win.....but a team that holds Liverpool for 87 minutes, should have a swagger.

 

[Blasterpocket68]

45 minutes ago, TRO said:

Its a real, real worry as to how much money we waste over various administrations.

There is one sure fire way to destroy and feel good factor apart from Losing all the time.....is to spunk money on players, who are not worth it....It causes Internal strife.

Owners no matter how rich they are, will not countenance, a constant stream of over valued players, where their sell on value is questionable.....where would we in all honesty recover some of the money we have spent....eg. 14 mill on Targett, who would give us that?

where is the confidence from the owners, we will get it right in January?

from a mangers point of view, its almost as  quick through the trap door as losing.

Managers who don't spend a lot, always have a get out of jail card.

i guess it depends on who has chosen the players, if we keep shopping in Aldi and don't stretch our selves in this league chances are we buy a dud.  

[Stevo985]

I think he’s doing ok. 

Not great, no terrible. Some things definitely need to improve. Some things are good enough. 
 

I’m sure this middle of the road comment will get lost in the crowd of the two extremes shouting at each other. 

[Zhan_Zhuang]

49 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

I thought we were thoroughly outplayed from start to finish. They move the ball so much better than we do.

Except for the key moment in the game, our goal.

It was lovely interplay from El Ghazi to Grealish and then finished splendidly by Hourihane; watch the goal again it was the best move of the game and whether you like it or not it was us Villa who made it!

UTV 

[danceoftheshamen]

Against Norwich i thought we were better than against Southampton but were yet again let down by poor wide play & the lack of firepower up front.

I also though it was startling how often Matt Targett failed to prevent the cross coming in from his side.

Wesley had one of his better games but he needs a second striker (or wingers who actually contribute and pose some kind of threat) around him to make him work. If the wingers were better they could work as a front three instead of being the three separate individuals that they are currently. This would be much tougher for the opposition to defend. It's as though they are all working on different wavelengths.

So yes in my view Elghazi & Trez were very poor. They seldom pose a threat and on the odd occasion they do they fluff their lines by either giving the ball away, not being in the right place or missing a sitter. They constantly get caught out of position and give the ball away needlessly. As for defensive duties they leave our fullbacks completely exposed. We need replacements for both in my view if this Dean Smith system is going to work. I'd love the guy from Hull City and maybe Benrahma to come in and & I do actually feel Wesley would benefit massively if this happened.

Targett is also no more than a back up standard player at the moment. No surprise Southampton ditched him. Hopefully he will improve over time but meanwhile we need to replace Taylor to give him more competition.

We do of course need another striker to compete with Big Wes and take some pressure of him.

Finally i have to say i am disappointed in Marvelous Nakamba. He constantly gives the ball away needlessly, it happens every game and is the reason DS brought him off on Sat. He is also very slow in releasing the ball making us easy & predictable to play against.

Other than that i think we are decent and possibly mid table standard. It's those four who are not stepping up currently and the additional striker we clearly need.

I am happy with Hause, Guilbert (Aside from the shocker against saints), Konsa, & Mings. Engels is usually quite solid too (Again not sure what happened against Saints). Heaton is adequate as are the midfield other than Nakamba. Luiz i feel will get better & better.

So new LB, DM, Wingers x 2 & Striker to provide competition with Wes.

 

[Rightdm00]

Just now, TRO said:

yes they do.....but they don't do the most crucial thing....score.

All the fancy play in the world is lovely, but if you can't finish, what is the point.

I watched Liverpool last night and was blown away with thie ability, not just the flair, but the ability to keep the ball and deny the opposition from taking it, mainly by moving the ball so fast in transition.

This is the team yes the world champions, that we was leading for 87 minutes, before the error at the back post let in Robertson....The error at the back post that happens so often.

But to get back on track......How on earth has our confidence shattered so easily after giving such a team a game, We should have built on that......are we so fragile that our Belief is like a roller coaster....Liverpool would be forgiven for thinking ( thats if they cared) how did Leicester take them apart.

I have real grave questions about our character as a team.....we showed a spark yesterday to carve out a win.....but a team that holds Liverpool for 87 minutes, should have a swagger.

 

Yeah it was really startling to see how nervous we were versus Norwich. What happened to that team that was putting in performances win or lose?

One point was Mings going down. He was a big loss as alot of our possession started with him winning the ball and not hoofing it up field at the first sign of pressure. Another, is just how young we are. I didn't think it would matter all that much but imagine what would have happened to our team spirit if we took a 9-0 loss.  Southampton had the nous and experience to shake that off and keep grinding out results. It's the main reason why Chelsea are so up and down this year.  This is why I hope we go the experience route this transfer window. 

I think our talent levels are high enough to stay in the Prem. It's our know how and fire that seem to be lacking. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, TheStagMan said:

Are goalkeepers not supposed to stop the ball going in the net though? Just like theirs did during that game?

Saw someone say something similar yesterday. "If it wasn't for Heaton, Hause and Luiz clearance we would have lost" etc.

Then my response was so you're basically saying if it wasn't for the players he signed to do the jobs they did we would have lost.

I'm critical of Dean myself as of late, but as with everything else we tend to exxagerate everything and not acknowledge positives.

Edited December 27, 2019 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[villalad21]

1 hour ago, DaveAV1 said:

I’m sorry you’re disappointed. I hope it hasn’t ruined your Christmas. 

Sad you view my posts like this.

I criticize when i see a disappointing performance because i want us to improve.

If we play like that throughout the season we'll get relegated. Worse side in the league cut us open like a hot knife through butter and it needs to be addressed. The worry is i don't think Smith can do it. His defensive record at Walsall and Brentford were poor. 

[PussEKatt]

People on this forum are all talking about how bad the team was or how bad certain players were and questioning the formation etc etc etc.In fact posters on here are questioning everything except the one thing that I would like the answer to.

How come Wesley has started every single game so far and continues to do so ??????

When we get a new striker, will he replace Wesley on the pitch,OR Kodija on the bench ?

FFS DS, at least try to get it right 

[Laughable Chimp]

2 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

People on this forum are all talking about how bad the team was or how bad certain players were and questioning the formation etc etc etc.In fact posters on here are questioning everything except the one thing that I would like the answer to.

How come Wesley has started every single game so far and continues to do so ??????

When we get a new striker, will he replace Wesley on the pitch,OR Kodija on the bench ?

FFS DS, at least try to get it right 

Uh, you don't read the Wesley thread much do you?

[PussEKatt]

Just now, Laughable Chimp said:

Uh, you don't read the Wesley thread much do you?

Yes I do.But that does not explain why he starts every game.I have never ever ever ever heard of a striker starting so many games for so little result and continuing to be the first choice.FFS, peolle are not fussed on Kodija but the way WEsley playes we would probably be better off with a striker that was in a wheele chair.When Wesley plays we are effectivly playing with 10 men.