TRO Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, VillaChris said: Nigel Adkins did a better job at Southampton than DS has done here imo. He took over Southampton in September 2010 when they were mid table in league one. Were outside the prem bottom 3 in Jan 2013 and improving (they'd just beaten us away 1-0 and got a 2-2 at Chelsea) when he was sacked for an unknown called Pochettino. They made at the time what looked a strange decision but it worked well for next five years. I don't want DS sacked as generally he's a manager I've really got behind and believed in since he was appointed just 14 months ago. He achieved the main brief of promotion. However it's clearly like Wesley on the pitch he's really struggling at the moment with some of the demands at this level. Now the question is do we give him the time and in two years he could be a really good manager. However the problem is can the club really afford a relegation in the meantime? I believe not. Someone on another forum has made a good point. We let him go now and in the long run it could be best for all parties. He still leaves as a hero having got us promoted and the next manager has loads of games to get around 20 points to stay up (remember Sherwood came in middle of Feb and comfortably kept us up so there's still loads of time) or we keep faith, he dosen't keep us up and then it all goes really toxic next season if we're back mid table in the championship. Obviously I hope he can still turn things round but a dismal 3-1 loss at home to Southampton dosen't really make me confident for even draws from Norwich and Watford games. I have a real fear that he is not the disciplinarian, that is required at this level. I see the same issues in a players play game to game and no change......are they working on anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 I watched many of his Walsall games from his start in Jan 2011 up to leaving in late 2015. It took a while but he built that team up to be one of the strongest in league 1. Not just in terms of skill but organisation and also game management. That took him seasons though and ultimately the top level will always ruthlessly expose you more than the lower leagues, that's just a fact of football. Same happened at Brentford, took him two years before they started to look a very good team at championship level. I did say though he never played two upfront at Walsall, it was always 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 over five seasons so anyone wanting in the short term Kodj to play upfront with Wes....it won't be happening under this guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Wonder if Poch is free? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 I think if we don’t get at least 4 points from the next 3 games the board will have to make a decision. Every game is difficult in this league but once you start losing or dropping points to teams around you at home then the writings on the wall. We must beat Norwich now. No other result will be acceptable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuffolkVillan Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 3 hours ago, penguin said: It would be a lot easier to have confidence that’ll he’ll get us out of it if we tried to do anything different. If anything we are looking worse as games go by. Have to agree with this. 4-3-3 with our players hasn't worked in this league. Needs to bring variety because as so many have commented teams have now worked out how to beat us...and easily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoNnErS Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, PatrickCousens said: And people complain about the players not having the fight. Too many posters on this board are weak bottlers. We're only just in the bottom three, with a string of massive games coming up. People acting like it's **** Remi Garde all over again. Get over yourselves and get behind the team and the manager Breaking news mate, one of those “string of massive games” has just happened, and we got smashed at home!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 19 minutes ago, Genie said: I’m also a bit peeved that he has even asked for a new deal. I’m sure he would have got a tasty promotion bonus. If he’d have kept us up then by all means negotiate a new deal, but to be asking for improved terms at that stage was very selfish. There was no real danger of us losing him either. What a ridiculous post. How do you even know Smith asked for it rather than was offered it? You're calling him selfish based on a quess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuffolkVillan Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Villarocker said: Say what you want about the coach and Wes etc but nothing can compare to how bad the defence was in that game. You simply cannot defend like that and expect to keep clean sheets. JT needs to get a grip of the lot of them! I agree the defence is and has been, since the season started, very poor but the midfield also have to shoulder responsibility as teams easily pass through us. Another worry for me is how often in one on one battles the opposition come away with the ball. Is JT a defending legend who cannot coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrassyNoel Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Bruce was an improvement on Di Matteo. Smith in turn has been an improvement on Bruce. We’ve made decent progress in the right direction, not least the outside promotion slot success. Question now is, can the progress be allowed to stall? I think January may be the last roll of the dice - if things don’t improve it may be the end of the road mid-February. The other question is whether that’s enough time for a new manager to achieve anything. Smith should be thankful Doug’s not in charge still that’s for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoNnErS Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, SuffolkVillan said: Is JT a defending legend who cannot coach? Football through history is littered with great players who were terrible managers/coaches. It’s always puzzled me why everyone is assuming JT will be a successful coach just because Lampard and Gerrard are doing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrassyNoel Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 On a brighter note it felt like we only played 15 minutes of football today, after Jimmy came on, during which we scored. I really hope the answer is in that last spell and stands out like a sore thumb to the coaching staff. We looked like we have done, seemed to panic Southampton a bit and find some belief. Those 15 mins might prove crucial going forward. Fingers crossed, I like Smith. Hate this current spell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, CoNnErS said: Football through history is littered with great players who were terrible managers/coaches. It’s always puzzled me why everyone is assuming JT will be a successful coach just because Lampard and Gerrard are doing well. Its a saying I've heard before, that sometimes the greatest at something are horrible teachers of it. To extend it to Terry, maybe there's a lot of what John Terry does in defence that even he himself might not fully realize, because it comes so natural to him. So he neglects to coach the defenders to do the same, because he expects them to just know what to do, like he does. Edited December 21, 2019 by Laughable Chimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 24 minutes ago, SuffolkVillan said: Have to agree with this. 4-3-3 with our players hasn't worked in this league. Needs to bring variety because as so many have commented teams have now worked out how to beat us...and easily Looking at the squad and the only system I can see our squad playing is 3-5-2 and even then we only have 3 strikers in the squad and an injury to Targett puts Taylor into a crucial attacking position. I dont think the squad is unbalanced like Bruce left us but it seems players were brought in with a system in mind 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 19 minutes ago, CoNnErS said: Football through history is littered with great players who were terrible managers/coaches. It’s always puzzled me why everyone is assuming JT will be a successful coach just because Lampard and Gerrard are doing well. He may well be a better manager than coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 22 minutes ago, GrassyNoel said: Bruce was an improvement on Di Matteo. Smith in turn has been an improvement on Bruce. We’ve made decent progress in the right direction, not least the outside promotion slot success. Question now is, can the progress be allowed to stall? I think January may be the last roll of the dice - if things don’t improve it may be the end of the road mid-February. The other question is whether that’s enough time for a new manager to achieve anything. Smith should be thankful Doug’s not in charge still that’s for sure. February will be too late Beginning of Jan for me As harsh as it sounds we should be making calls now asking if you can start in the new year, if so who and what do you want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 33 minutes ago, SuffolkVillan said: Have to agree with this. 4-3-3 with our players hasn't worked in this league. Needs to bring variety because as so many have commented teams have now worked out how to beat us...and easily I know it's easy to argue 433 is 451 and vice versa, but we really are a 451 team and not a 433 one. 433 for me actually indicates 3 forwards. Ironically we probably play with one striker who isn't actually a striker. Wesley is obviously not good enough yet, and does his best work in midfield. Grealish drifts all around the place, but is more a CAM/playmaker than a forward. El Ghazi is more a straight forward winger for me, though we can make the argument he's the only striker we got. The reason I am writing this is that while our midfield and defence are struggling, it's pretty obvious we are completely toothless up front. Without checking I am willing to bet money on our midfielders having a better scoring and attempt ratio than our striker. And that is an obvious problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrassyNoel Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, KHV said: February will be too late Beginning of Jan for me As harsh as it sounds we should be making calls now asking if you can start in the new year, if so who and what do you want Fear you’re right. I might be wrong but didn’t Rafa say he’d come to us before Lambert took over, but wanted a war chest of about 30-40M which we wouldn’t (couldn’t) agree to? We’re in a different spot now, maybe he could be sounded out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Junxs said: He had no right to get us promoted with the mess he inherited. I said at the start of the season that even if we get relegated I'd like to see Smith remain as manager. Burnley stuck with Dyche and came back stronger after relegation. Smith has only been here a year and it would be awful to get rid, he'd be a victim of his own success. Burnley didn't have a 140 million outlay on players when they came up though. They are a regional club. Their business model and ours will always be different. It would not be awful to get rid. If you want loyalty buy a dog. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Not sure who we'd replace Smith with, a fancy progressive coach will need time to implement his ideas, not really ideal when you're in a relegation battle and could well cause more bad than good, those kind of managers need to come in pre-season otherwise it can spell disaster. So you're either left with Moyes or Allardyce types who might make a short term impact, or a big name manager that's been a proven success and who'd both have an immediate impact and has the ability to coach the team and improve it long-term, trouble is we're not really in a position to attract such a manager, if Smith goes it would be a choice between either an Allardyce type, or taking a risk on an unkown. Best outcome will be if Smith turns things around, need to stay in touch with survival over these next three games and then hope we spend wisely enough to have a much better second half to the season, a couple of astute signings could make a big difference to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) you can play any system you want......but if you can't win enough individual battles and keep the ball.....the system is toast. we played 4-3-3 in our finest hours. The 2 centre backs Evans and McNaught could head the ball and dominate. Des Bremner could win the ball and run marathons, always being the oasis for a ball from a player in a tight spot. Sid cowans could Distribute and win it and scheme and put it on a sixpence for set pieces. Dennis M could run with the ball distribute, when he wasn't marshalling on retreat Peter withe could head the ball, hold the ball and score Gary Shaw was the guile, he kept the ball and played players in rarely losing it. The full backs could raid and defend. and they were all drilled to 110% work rate as the Mantra. but you have to have the players to play 4-3-3......we haven't Edited December 21, 2019 by TRO 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts