DaveAV1 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 5 hours ago, TRO said: Its one thing being set up not to lose....(not saying I like it) Its another thing to say you have the players who can do it. I don't think we have, they have been recruited to play the way Dean wants, so Its no surprise that it would be difficult to play it tight and cautious. I would like to think we have players so rounded and complete that it wasn't an and or either and could do both....but it seems it is, and they can't do both..... judging by the comments, if they are accurate. There are very few teams, if any at all, with players that are so rounded and complete that they can play different styles. I’m yet to see Man City under Pepe that sets up defensively. All teams recruit to suit the style that the manager wants. I can’t think of a team that can just switch styles at the click of a switch. I’m not ignoring the fact that good teams, no matter what their general style is, have the ability to grind out results, but that tends to be down to the overall standard of the players in the team. To suggest that we are somehow a poor team because we don’t have varying styles of play is somewhat bizarre. In fact up until Smith arrived one of the problems we have had was that we didn’t actually have an identity. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiltorken Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 10 minutes ago, KentVillan said: doubt it's as simple as a Wes / Tammy thing. Wes is okay on defensive headers. I actually think Wesley has been almost impeccable defensively from set pieces apart from that freak assist he gave away recently. Far cry from Kodjias pathetic kick to clear Liverpools goal from manes flick on the near post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 1 minute ago, kiltorken said: I actually think Wesley has been almost impeccable defensively from set pieces apart from that freak assist he gave away recently. Far cry from Kodjias pathetic kick to clear Liverpools goal from manes flick on the near post. And he deserved zero blame for that "freak assist". Although I'm sure some of our resident clearings in the woods took the opportunity. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuartc445 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 59 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I’ll have to watch it back to comment. We had 43% and 4 attempts to their 5. Although non on target. So whilst maybe not park the bus it does sound like a poor performance. I was at the game, in the 1st Half we 100% parked the bus in the 2nd half we did try to attack more but the problem was that Sheffield United had upped their game and forced us back which got them then goal our attack was pretty much ineffective until Luiz came on only them did it seem to have a pattern to it. It was a poor performance there is no way it can be described any other way. The thing is holding back in the 1st half increasing the attacking in the 2nd is a good tactic to use it'd help us burning out in the last 10 minutes of games it's something O'Neil used to do to great effect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiltorken Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 14 minutes ago, KentVillan said: And he deserved zero blame for that "freak assist". Although I'm sure some of our resident clearings in the woods took the opportunity. Yeah well the good time charlies who expect everything for nothing who came out of the Woodwork recently are having buyers remorse. Hopefully they piss off soon enough or stay and support. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 2 hours ago, KentVillan said: And he deserved zero blame for that "freak assist". Although I'm sure some of our resident clearings in the woods took the opportunity. What have I told you? Can you keep your insults to the Mings thread please. Very unpleasant to read you calling fans words removed across multiple threads. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Tomaszk said: What have I told you? Can you keep your insults to the Mings thread please. Very unpleasant to read you calling fans words removed across multiple threads. Left you a message in the Mings thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoNnErS Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Quote 12 hours ago, KentVillan said: At the risk of sounding a bit old school, I'm starting to think our biggest problem is set pieces It’s the middle of December and you’ve only just spotted this??Mate, there’s a bloke on Mars in a cave with his hands over his eye who knows we’ve conceded the most goals from set pieces this season! 12 hours ago, KentVillan said: If we could defend set pieces properly, we'd have had 3 points vs. Man Utd, 1 point vs Arsenal, and probably extra points against teams like Brighton, etc. That’s right, cause if we could defend set pieces we might have got 4 points from the Brighton game instead of just the 3! 12 hours ago, KentVillan said: Besides Engels / Mings / Wesley we have quite a short team Jonathan Kodjia : 6’2 Anwar El Gazi: 6’2 Henri Lansbury: 6’0 Matt Targett: 6’0 Ahmed Elmohamady :6’0 12 hours ago, KentVillan said: Wesley isn't much use attacking a cross 12 hours ago, KentVillan said: Wes is okay on defensive headers. Make your mind up mate. Which one is it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 18 hours ago, villalad21 said: Spot on. Massive mistake by Smith. We need to accept and understand what we are. Attack is our strength. Defense is our weakness. We need to play to our strengths. Hopefully Smith never attempts to do this again. that's true. and survival is our holy grail......but being so one dimensional, won't take us far. Leicester, should be the model we TRY to emulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 13 hours ago, DaveAV1 said: There are very few teams, if any at all, with players that are so rounded and complete that they can play different styles. I’m yet to see Man City under Pepe that sets up defensively. All teams recruit to suit the style that the manager wants. I can’t think of a team that can just switch styles at the click of a switch. I’m not ignoring the fact that good teams, no matter what their general style is, have the ability to grind out results, but that tends to be down to the overall standard of the players in the team. To suggest that we are somehow a poor team because we don’t have varying styles of play is somewhat bizarre. In fact up until Smith arrived one of the problems we have had was that we didn’t actually have an identity. Dave with respect, I think you have failed to grasp what point I am making....maybe I didn't explain myself properly. Leicester can defend and attack, so can many teams in the Prem, can,some are very physical in their strategy and bully in to scoring.....I am saying our players are not rounded enough.......you seem to be making " the styles " sound like the change is meant from game to game.....I am not saying that, I'm saying during the game different skills sets need to be applied, that's my interpretation of rounded.......Perhaps our player are just not good enough in ALL aspects of play, just good in some. The fact in your admission they grind out results is my very point.....teams don't just attack to grind out results, they CONTAIN the opposition, we struggle with that aspect.....We have "moments"in a game where we score goals and we rely on scoring more than the opposition, to me that is a dicey strategy, because inevitably a team will fight back and we have to be ready and nullify them, that our weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) I think the one thing we all agree on is thst we wanna see higher work rate, higher collective pressure, and if need be earlier subs. Personally I wanna see McGinn in a deeper position, but I suspect that won't happen. Edited December 21, 2019 by KenjiOgiwara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) I find some of the criticism in this thread a bit harsh and I don't know if it is because some fans set their expectations a little high. I was someone who would have taken finishing 17th at start of the season and expected a relegation battle and to dip in and out of the bottom 3 throughout the season so where we are now as come as no surprise. It is going over old ground but having had such a huge overhaul in the summer and having so many players either new to this country or new to this level/league always meant it would take time to get some consistency and so it is proving. I think it is worth remembering of the teams we have played in the bottom half of the table we have lost once in 7 games, won 4 and drew 2. I think that is a really promising stat to remember especially as we now have 4 games on the bounce against sides in the bottom half of the league. If we can take at least 7 points from these games we'll be well set to stay up and that for me would be a successful season. Edited December 21, 2019 by markavfc40 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 26 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: I find some of the criticism in this thread a bit harsh and I don't know if it is because some fans set their expectations a little high. I was someone who would have taken finishing 17th at start of the season and expected a relegation battle and to dip in and out of the bottom 3 throughout the season so where we are now as come as no surprise. It is going over old ground but having had such a huge overhaul in the summer and having so many players either new to this country or new to this level/league always meant it would take time to get some consistency and so it is proving. I think it is worth remembering of the teams we have played in the bottom half of the table we have lost once in 7 games, won 4 and drew 2. I think that is a really promising stat to remember especially as we now have 4 games on the bounce against sides in the bottom half of the league. If we can take at least 7 points from these games we'll be well set to stay up and that for me would be a successful season. I just want us to play with some kind of plan and purpose Its been a bit of a mess lately and the midfield is quite literally all over the place Nobody seems to know what they are doing which is a bit of a concern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 One good thing about Dean's tenure so far....we step up in the big games. Last season we had two derby wins over SHA then all those must wins v Bristol, Forest etc in the run in. Then WBA first leg win and the play off final of course. This season after opening two defeats Everton had a must win feel about it and we stepped up. Then after another winless period we went to Norwich and won 5-1. After three straight defeats we then convincingly beat Newcastle. Feels like a season where we'll just do enough to keep our heads above water and hopefully we won't lose that knack now as this really is huge part of the season. 7 points or more from next 4 games and we'll pull away and back into mid table group. Anything less than 5 points and it's going to be a very difficult second half of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, KHV said: I just want us to play with some kind of plan and purpose Its been a bit of a mess lately and the midfield is quite literally all over the place Nobody seems to know what they are doing which is a bit of a concern Sadly I kinda agree. We are where I expected us to be in the table, or thereabouts anyway. But Imo we are looking a bit worse than I thought we would. We are no able to play the football we want to play. I honestly didn't expect us to be in the bottom 3 when it came to attempted passes and number of touches of the ball per game. I'm certain that's not what Smith wanted and expected either and it's been an issue for us. Atm we are very much a bottom team playing like a bottom team. It's rushed, sloppy and riddled with errors. We are inexperienced and it shows. and even thou we score goals we lack quality in the final 3rd. We desperately need a new striker and ideally another wide player as El Ghazi is too unreliable and Trez is frankly not good enough. Maybe we even need an upgrade in central midfield but that won't happen until the summer. If we stay up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 I think everybody though is harshly judging after an incredibly hard run of games. If after the next few weeks we are still saying the same then fair enough but we have just been playing the best of the best. Now playing teams around us, if we look better and pick up some points then on balance our first half of the season will look positive. Anything outside bottom 3 this season is a positive and yes we look envious at Sheffield Utd positional the moment but again our recent run has been incredibly hard. Yes you can argue about lack of control of games, effort, shape, individual players but sometimes on here people forget the opposing team and the quality and experience they have. i think review after the next few games is better than what we’ve just been through. If we can pick up a couple of wins in the next two weeks then everything will look better review of the first half of the season. If we don’t manage to get those points then judgement is deserved. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 1 hour ago, TRO said: Dave with respect, I think you have failed to grasp what point I am making....maybe I didn't explain myself properly. Leicester can defend and attack, so can many teams in the Prem, can,some are very physical in their strategy and bully in to scoring.....I am saying our players are not rounded enough.......you seem to be making " the styles " sound like the change is meant from game to game.....I am not saying that, I'm saying during the game different skills sets need to be applied, that's my interpretation of rounded.......Perhaps our player are just not good enough in ALL aspects of play, just good in some. The fact in your admission they grind out results is my very point.....teams don't just attack to grind out results, they CONTAIN the opposition, we struggle with that aspect.....We have "moments"in a game where we score goals and we rely on scoring more than the opposition, to me that is a dicey strategy, because inevitably a team will fight back and we have to be ready and nullify them, that our weakness. I think you will probably agree TRO, that we are not at the stage in our development as a team, both individually or collectively to compare us with the likes of Leicester. We were promoted via the playoffs with a number of players either on loan or at the end of their contracts/careers. The result is that we have had to assemble a squad over a single summer, which although our new owners have financial clout, we are still under the restrictive challenges of FFP. So putting a squad together that has needed 12 new players was always going to be a challenge, even with £130m spent. If we are still in the PL next season and spend a further £130m on perhaps only 3 or 4 players then you may be able to find the quality of players which I think you are alluding to. But for now we have to be realistic as to where we are given the time scale. Hopefully the players we have are good enough to compete with the bottom half of the PL but we need to be on the very best form to get much out of the upper half. Results up to now seem to bare this out. The team and it’s coaches will improve as they gain experience, however we have to be both realistic and patient. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) @CoNnErS Quote That’s right, cause if we could defend set pieces we might have got 4 points from the Brighton game instead of just the 3! Sorry, was thinking of the Burnley game, not the Brighton game. Quote Jonathan Kodjia : 6’2 Anwar El Gazi: 6’2 Henri Lansbury: 6’0 Matt Targett: 6’0 Ahmed Elmohamady :6’0 3 of those players don't start, and AEG is useless in the air. Quote Make your mind up mate. Which one is it? Wesley being bad at attacking crosses but okay at defensive headers isn't a contradiction. I know the set piece stat is hardly a revelation, but most of the discussion in this thread is about how we set up in open play. Edited December 21, 2019 by KentVillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Massive concerns over the coaching, we are inept all over. The only tactic we have is 'give it to Grealish'. Not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) EDIT Edited December 21, 2019 by Dr_Pangloss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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