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Dean Smith

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14 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

It doesn't require amazing players but I requires lots of off the ball movement to take advantage of the extra man in the middle currently we are not doing that and because of that we are struggling. 

Depends how you play it, I've watched a lot of the old C2, C1, serie B and even eccelenza level over here and I can assure you some really bang average players manage it in an organised and compact way to win games. They just need to know how to play it, the way Smith plays it is pretty aggressive but that's why we love him isn't it?
 

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14 minutes ago, romavillan said:

Depends how you play it, I've watched a lot of the old C2, C1, serie B and even eccelenza level over here and I can assure you some really bang average players manage it in an organised and compact way to win games. They just need to know how to play it, the way Smith plays it is pretty aggressive but that's why we love him isn't it?
 

Yeah you can win with average players. They just need to buy into the system and move so they are free for a pass we don't do that and we struggle. 

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1 hour ago, MotoMkali said:

Yeah you can win with average players. They just need to buy into the system and move so they are free for a pass we don't do that and we struggle. 

I dunno, when we have an off day our movement isn't great but I have a memory long enough to remember us under Bruce when the players could have brought chairs out with them.

Even against wolves there were a few times ont eh counter when our movement was excellent. It's not the formation that's at fault, if the problem is the two wide players of the front 3 not doing what they should be doing defensively then that's them either being confused, idle, tired or any number of reasons. Smith identified the problems himself in the wolves display, which is another positive with Smith. We've had managers that would just throw the players under a bus or blame their socks.

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8 minutes ago, romavillan said:

I dunno, when we have an off day our movement isn't great but I have a memory long enough to remember us under Bruce when the players could have brought chairs out with them.

Even against wolves there were a few times ont eh counter when our movement was excellent. It's not the formation that's at fault, if the problem is the two wide players of the front 3 not doing what they should be doing defensively then that's them either being confused, idle, tired or any number of reasons. Smith identified the problems himself in the wolves display, which is another positive with Smith. We've had managers that would just throw the players under a bus or blame their socks.

I mentioned this in another post. The discipline and fitness of our wingers when we haven’t got the ball is the problem.   At the moment with Jack and Jota injured there’s no other options but both Trez and El Ghazi need to improve this part of their game. 

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13 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I agree 433 isn’t the problem it’s the fitness and discipline  of of our wingers that is. They just don’t track runners enough. 

They don't track runners enough.....they don't attack with  gusto enough either.

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On 13/11/2019 at 15:31, TRO said:

I like Dean Smith....but I think he has a lot to do and a lot to think about.....particularly, with his next batch of recruits.

Coming from where we were 12 months ago it's a reasonable argument, there has been significant improvement, but that claim, won’t keep us in this division alone…its very noble to be reasonable, but sometimes you need more of a ruthless approach. I could make observations of many things we could do better….but one underlying issue really concerns me.

This is where my main concern is with our current set -up….and for that matter, it was in the championship too.

I am not sure we have the right mantra or platform for staying in this league. I look at teams like Bournemouth-Burnley-Brighton-Sheff Utd all have added a hard nosed edge to their game and become difficult to beat….They all came up playing attractive football, realised that was not enough to stay in the Premier League.

I do see good things in our play, we have passages of play that are encouraging and individual moments of glory….but no sustained control or dominance.

I would like to see a far greater degree of commitment to aggression from our players and front foot ,will/desire to stop them and impose ourselves….we are too passive and reactive and smack of indecision and hesitancy too often in games.

I look at how many players we have bought in the last umpteen years only to see a list of hit and miss signings…..I believe in the main its because the club Mantra does not lend itself to a sufficient level of aggression in its approach, too many players go by the wayside.

Other clubs have made good use of some of our misses like Albrighton, Ayew, Enda Stevens, Traore ,Westwood & Lowton etc…..The platforms they have gone in to was more stable and robust, more diligent and combative….

We are not a bad team, but this lack of aggression has been with us for some time….sure Mings has helped and SJM, but the spirit is eager but soft and not hard nosed enough. I Think it helps new recruits make a mark better too, coming it to a side hell bent on winning possession and competing for every ball on the floor or in the air…..its contagious.

Dean has done a good job, but this kind of thing was at Brentford too….Great on the eye, but soft underbelly to concede when the opposition is more aggressive or more committed to stopping us.

We didn’t win the league for a reason….and I think I am touching on it….for me its still there. When players duck in a wall, it tells me its still there….look one incident is not influencing me, or a couple or defeats…I have seen it for the last 4 managers or more…..Our drive and aggression comes from one or two players, has done for years…..We need much more to be "at it"….we need to hunt players down as a group, and win back possession, not individuals floundering….. not wait around for a champagne ball, creating massive gaps for our opponents to play in and conceding possession so easily.

Sure we have moments where the passage of play is great and score good goals and win the odd game….but our benevolence IMO comes from our inability to be committed to the necessary levels of aggression to seize the initiative.

In tough times in a game….We chase, we stretch and we retreat….we throw bodies in, we sometimes close down in the last third….that’s in the main the back four….the other 6 rarely do , or not often enough…..or not in the last 20 minutes of a game.

We don’t win headers anywhere, we yield in the main to those with a bigger appetite for physicality, even at throw- ins we concede ground…to a more committed opponent who steals territory too often…..In short, we wear ourselves out, by our reactive as opposed to Pro active approach.

In my humble opinion…..and inconclusion….as a team we don’t go after the opposition with nearly enough intent or aggression to secure more points than we have.

I really do hope in fullness of time ,I can honestly say we have fixed this.

 

Edited by TRO

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seems to me Smith wants to make friends by "losing the right way trying to play football" rather than ruffle a few feathers.

the likes of klopp and pep giving their "well meaning" commiserations to "a great club with a great stadium" makes me sick to my jappa.

I'd rather big jurg was moaning like a bitch about Villa's rough house challenges and diving at the slightest of contact anyday.

The timewasting should have begun right after trez's miss hit bulged the net. he could of killed a few mins by getting his studs caught in the netting after the ensuing bundle.

If klop and pep give you praise. it means you've rolled over just how they like it, arse cheeks akimbo. If they're bitching and moaning it means they've lost. winners are bad losers.

same with the tora tora tora line up against wolves. with a depleted team the obvious thing to do was to go and park the tram.

Smith is showing all the signs of being the new tony mowbary.

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It is strange that we still have a completely unbalanced midfield at this stage in the season, I know it was always going to take time to get the best out of a relatively new team in a division most have never competed in. But Nakamba is the only midfielder who seems to play a fairly well defined ball winning midfielder role, McGinn, Grealish, Connor, Luiz all seem to play different shades of the same role. Only other difference is Grealish keeps possession and the rest seem incredibly good at losing it, oh and Connor can take a decent set piece and score goals.

We rely hugely on our wingers to defend which is also a bit odd, especially when time and time again players like El Ghazi cost us goals when they lose their man. Not sure any other club expects their wingers to also double up as wing backs. 

I am not totally down on Dean though, I like the free flowing attacking football and I think the team like playing for him, his attitude is infectious. But we need to grow a spine if we want to stay in this league.

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3 hours ago, screwdriver said:

seems to me Smith wants to make friends by "losing the right way trying to play football" rather than ruffle a few feathers.

the likes of klopp and pep giving their "well meaning" commiserations to "a great club with a great stadium" makes me sick to my jappa.

I'd rather big jurg was moaning like a bitch about Villa's rough house challenges and diving at the slightest of contact anyday.

The timewasting should have begun right after trez's miss hit bulged the net. he could of killed a few mins by getting his studs caught in the netting after the ensuing bundle.

If klop and pep give you praise. it means you've rolled over just how they like it, arse cheeks akimbo. If they're bitching and moaning it means they've lost. winners are bad losers.

same with the tora tora tora line up against wolves. with a depleted team the obvious thing to do was to go and park the tram.

Smith is showing all the signs of being the new tony mowbary.

The last line is amazing!

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1 hour ago, VillanousOne said:

It is strange that we still have a completely unbalanced midfield at this stage in the season, I know it was always going to take time to get the best out of a relatively new team in a division most have never competed in. But Nakamba is the only midfielder who seems to play a fairly well defined ball winning midfielder role, McGinn, Grealish, Connor, Luiz all seem to play different shades of the same role. Only other difference is Grealish keeps possession and the rest seem incredibly good at losing it, oh and Connor can take a decent set piece and score goals.

We rely hugely on our wingers to defend which is also a bit odd, especially when time and time again players like El Ghazi cost us goals when they lose their man. Not sure any other club expects their wingers to also double up as wing backs. 

I am not totally down on Dean though, I like the free flowing attacking football and I think the team like playing for him, his attitude is infectious. But we need to grow a spine if we want to stay in this league.

It looks more balanced with jack wide.

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He’s had a dozen games at this level. As have most the side. Lots of very premature prophets around.

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2 hours ago, VillanousOne said:

It is strange that we still have a completely unbalanced midfield at this stage in the season, I know it was always going to take time to get the best out of a relatively new team in a division most have never competed in. But Nakamba is the only midfielder who seems to play a fairly well defined ball winning midfielder role, McGinn, Grealish, Connor, Luiz all seem to play different shades of the same role. Only other difference is Grealish keeps possession and the rest seem incredibly good at losing it, oh and Connor can take a decent set piece and score goals.

We rely hugely on our wingers to defend which is also a bit odd, especially when time and time again players like El Ghazi cost us goals when they lose their man. Not sure any other club expects their wingers to also double up as wing backs. 

I am not totally down on Dean though, I like the free flowing attacking football and I think the team like playing for him, his attitude is infectious. But we need to grow a spine if we want to stay in this league.

I think the problem is mcginn. Let's face it he is a box to box with some skill put not much passing ability. Yet he plays like a number 9 who can't move and to be honest absolutely destroys us. He is out of position when we lose the ball and he makes it 5 times harder to keep it by never being available for a pass. He revives the ball 35 times in a match. He is a key player and a central midfielder he should be averaging in the low 50s instead for 10 - 20 minutes of a game iniesta wouldn't be able to find him with a pass let alone nakamba. It means we either hoof it or pass it out wide which tactically sound to teams catch onto and exploit like adama traore did like 5 times against us. We tried to play some 1 2s with target traore nipped in won the ball was now past our left back and it led to mings' foul and their goal and 3 or 4 really good chances jimenez fluffed. We were lucky it wasn't an absolute beat down seeing us lose by 4 or more goals. 

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52 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I remember quite vividly the absolute crap we've played for the last 10 years. I also remember the counter-attacking football under MON and the years before that. 

What Smith has done so far is nothing short of miraculous, i.e. from the Bruceball team in the championship to what we are today. 

We are building a club almost from scratch in some respects and I fully buy into his football. It's the first time in absolute ages we are fun to watch. 

Consider the fact that we are a build in progress and no big changes are needed. We need patience to improve. 

If people can't have patience with Deano after the last 6-8 managers, then please shoot me and be done with it. **** me. 

funny thing is Lambert and Bruce got a lot more leeway from some fans and offered no progress. bizarre

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12 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I remember quite vividly the absolute crap we've played for the last 10 years. I also remember the counter-attacking football under MON and the years before that. 

What Smith has done so far is nothing short of miraculous, i.e. from the Bruceball team in the championship to what we are today. 

We are building a club almost from scratch in some respects and I fully buy into his football. It's the first time in absolute ages we are fun to watch. 

Consider the fact that we are a build in progress and no big changes are needed. We need patience to improve. 

If people can't have patience with Deano after the last 6-8 managers, then please shoot me and be done with it. **** me. 

I'd like to see a middle ground.

Defensively so far this season has not been acceptable to me.

We have to tighten up the defense and be tougher to play against. We certainly can't keep conceding 20+ shots every game.

I remember the Brighton game and how easy it was for them to get past our midfield with 10 men! A real warning sign for me.

Sheffield United got the balance right. They are very hard to break down but at the same time are creating plenty of chances.

Currently we're basically a slightly better version of Norwich and i do fear for us this season if defensive organization don't improve.

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1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

I'd like to see a middle ground.

Defensively so far this season has not been acceptable to me.

We have to tighten up the defense and be tougher to play against. We certainly can't keep conceding 20+ shots every game.

I remember the Brighton game and how easy it was for them to get past our midfield with 10 men! A real warning sign for me.

Sheffield United got the balance right. They are very hard to break down but at the same time are creating plenty of chances.

Currently we're basically a slightly better version of Norwich and i do fear for us this season if defensive organization don't improve.

You like your little stat don't you. 20+ shots per game. Tired of hearing it.

We have faced 57 shots on target against us all season.

If we have had 20+ shots against us per game (which is probably a load of made up nonsense also), then the majority are way out and off target, let everyone keep shooting from there for all i care.

Currently there are 7 teams that are worse off with shots on target against.

Incidentally we're currently 4th in the table for shots on target also, funny how you never bring that up?

http://www.footcharts.co.uk/index.cfm?task=basics_shotsontarget

Shots on target
English Premier - All - 2019/2020
Position Team Played Shots on target Shots on target per game
For Agst For Agst
15 Norwich 12 43 75 3.58 6.25
11 Tottenham 12 49 72 4.08 6.00
6 West Ham 12 59 71 4.92 5.92
9 Arsenal 12 53 64 4.42 5.33
13 Southampton 12 48 64 4.00 5.33
19 Watford 12 39 62 3.25 5.17
14 Brighton 12 43 59 3.58 4.92
4 Aston Villa 12 64 57 5.33 4.75
18 Newcastle 12 40 57 3.33 4.75
12 Bournemouth 12 48 56 4.00 4.67
10 Burnley 12 49 53 4.08 4.42
17 Crystal Palace 12 41 53 3.42 4.42
1 Man City 12 86 46 7.17 3.83
5 Man United 12 61 45 5.08 3.75
16 Wolves 12 42 45 3.50 3.75
8 Everton 12 54 44 4.50 3.67
20 Sheffield United 12 37 42 3.08 3.50
7 Leicester 12 57 40 4.75 3.33
2 Chelsea 12 80 35 6.67 2.92
3 Liverpool 12 77 30 6.42 2.50

Yes we need to tighten up defensively, especially in the last 20 mins, but can you stop going on about something that doesn't really make much difference as thought it is a major failing.

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13 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

I think the problem is mcginn

No.

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28 minutes ago, blandy said:

No.

I'm with you that to say he is the problem is wrong (as he's probably being told to play where/how he is), but I actually agree with the analysis and find myself getting very frustrated at him during games recently because of the reasons listed. I'd be surprised if he was just deciding to play that way though.

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